# Is a lightning bolt a racist symbol? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 23, 2001, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-lightning-bolt-a-racist-symbol/69876 "2001-06-23T10:51:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2001, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-lightning-bolt-a-racist-symbol/69876/1 "2001-06-23T10:51:45Z")
I want to get a lightning bolt tattoo for certain personal reasons, but it brings to mind Nazi’s and White supremacists. I know that the double lighting bolt symbol is a Nazi sybol, but what about one? Even if it’s not technically, do you think people would interpret it as one? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2001, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-lightning-bolt-a-racist-symbol/69876/2 "2001-06-23T13:15:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Is a lightning bolt a racist symbol? People — not symbols — are racists. No matter what symbol you choose to burn into your largest organ, you don’t know but what it might be appropriated tomorrow by the most hateful racist group on earth. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2001, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-lightning-bolt-a-racist-symbol/69876/3 "2001-06-23T13:38:53Z")
If it’s not on [the ADL’s list](http://www.adl.org/hate_symbols/default_graphics.html), you’re pretty safe, see as to how they seem to think that the circle-A anarchy symbol is racist… whatever… That’s not to say some hypersensitive and misguided individual might _think_ your tats are racist. Just ignore those people. For additional style points, get an Elvis “TCB” lightning bolt. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2001, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-lightning-bolt-a-racist-symbol/69876/4 "2001-06-23T15:15:43Z")
Just FTR, I believe the Nazi “double lightning bolt” is actually a stylized “SS”. Pic only. [http://www.1earth.com.au/badge/ap/pic/collat\_tabs2.jpg](http://www.1earth.com.au/badge/ap/pic/collat_tabs2.jpg) Pics and info. [http://216.205.92.146/www/g\_insig\_ss.htm](http://216.205.92.146/www/g_insig_ss.htm) I would think you could do a lightning bolt as long as it didn’t too much look like these particular 1930s Art Deco lightning bolts. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2001, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-lightning-bolt-a-racist-symbol/69876/5 "2001-06-23T15:22:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by black455 \* > \*\* see as to how they seem to think that the circle-A anarchy symbol is racist… whatever… > \*\* I actually took the extra 2.2 seconds to find out about this. > [@](#): > > Although the symbol is more often used by Anarchists, an “A” in a circle is also a symbol sometimes used by individuals in the white supremacist movement who are violently anti-government because of their conspiratorial belief that Jews control the government. The anarchy movement ranges from groups and individuals who wish peacefully to establish local self-government cooperatives all the way to those who violently lash out at government. The majority of people who identify with this movement consider themselves non-racist or anti-racist. The symbol is more likely to be used in an anti-government context than a racist context. Seems reasonable to me… whatever… Haj ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2001, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-lightning-bolt-a-racist-symbol/69876/6 "2001-06-23T15:44:43Z")
Some of our current and past military heraldry (unit crests and such) contain some of the very symbols mentioned above. The Seventh ATC (Army Training Command) is (or was; it may have been inactivated with the military’s downsizing) was an “A” on a round patch, with a red-white-blue color scheme. Certain special forces units, and the 25th Light Infantry Division (“Tropic Lightning”, based at Schofield Barracks, Hawaii) have the zig-zag stylized lightning bolt symbol in their unit crest. As such, tattoos featuring these symbols are quite popular with the soldiers assigned to these units. Whether these individuals are racists or not is a personal matter; whether these _symbols_ are meant to convey a racist message, or merely represent esprit decorps, is something you would have to ask the individual sporting this ink to clarify. But ask them _nicely._ 🙂 I have several tattoos, and am occasionally asked what they mean (they can be a bit enigmatic to the uninitiated). Only one person that I have met knew what they represented just by looking at them. Only one person (a native American) assumed that they had racist connotations; and from _his_ perspective, they very well could be interpreted that way. I told him _my_ reasons for them, what they meant to _me_, and he was mollified. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2001, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-lightning-bolt-a-racist-symbol/69876/7 "2001-06-23T15:46:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hajario \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by black455 \* > > \*\* see as to how they seem to think that the circle-A anarchy symbol is racist… whatever… > > \*\* > > I actually took the extra 2.2 seconds to find out about this. > > \ > > Seems reasonable to me… whatever… > > Haj \*\* That ADL site is the _only_ source I’ve ever seen for that. Even the Anti Racist Action, a fairly radical organization, doesn’t include the symbol in their “How to spot a nazi” literature. ---
**Author:** ![Man\_from\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Man\_from\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Man_from_Mars)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2001, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-lightning-bolt-a-racist-symbol/69876/8 "2001-06-23T16:05:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KidCharlemagne \* > \*\*Even if it’s not technically, do you think people would interpret it as one? \*\* First, you probably shouldn’t give a crap what people think, particularly the ignorant. And there are plenty of those to go around. Even the swastika isn’t a racist symbol. It was turned into one by Hitler. If you get a tattoo of a black swastika in a white cirlce surrounded by red, then you have a racist symbol. However, there are countless other designs of swastikas which are not at all racist, yet certain nimrods might condemn you because of their limited scope. I know my Hindu friend Mitesh is not a racist yet among the ancient designs in his home is a swastika. Just like with a swastika or a cross or anything else, the way the design is drawn will go a long way in how people may look at it. If I’m not mistaken, I think there is a football team in some obscure league (maybe the Euro-NFL) that has lightning bolts on their helmet and they convey no ideas of racism. It depends on how it is drawn. (Do you think of nazis when you see images of Zeus with lightning bolts in hand?). ---
**Author:** ![Sultan\_Kinkari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7bcc69/32.png) [@Sultan\_Kinkari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sultan_Kinkari)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2001, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-lightning-bolt-a-racist-symbol/69876/9 "2001-06-23T16:07:48Z")
If I didn’t know you, I’d think you were a rasist, unless you were black or asian. Or latino. Fuck tattoos, they’re stupid. If you can’t get chicks without a tattoo, it ain’t gonna help. ---
**Author:** ![AETBOND417](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/47e85d/32.png) [@AETBOND417](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AETBOND417)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2001, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-lightning-bolt-a-racist-symbol/69876/10 "2001-06-23T16:11:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wishbone \* > \*\*If I didn’t know you, I’d think you were a rasist, unless you were black or asian. Or latino. Fuck tattoos, they’re stupid. If you can’t get chicks without a tattoo, it ain’t gonna help. \*\* 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2001, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-lightning-bolt-a-racist-symbol/69876/11 "2001-06-23T20:00:30Z")
Having spent some serious time in several museums in Athens, Greece, lately, I was exposed to a huge number of swastikas in Eastern art and artifacts. Given the knee-jerk reaction of a lot of people to symbols, I can just see someone saying “Wow - so all the cultures of the East followed Hitler’s teachings - before he was born!” :rolleyes: Yeah **wishbone** , blacks, asians, and latinos could _never_ be racists…only whites, right? ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2001, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-lightning-bolt-a-racist-symbol/69876/12 "2001-06-23T21:10:57Z")
The only bigot I see in this thread is **wishbone**. Who’s the person who’s making sweeping generalizations about people’s personalities and beliefs based on no other evidence than that they have a tattoo? That’s bigotry, Wish. ---
**Author:** ![sjc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@sjc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sjc)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2001, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-lightning-bolt-a-racist-symbol/69876/13 "2001-06-24T04:31:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diceman \* > \*\*The only bigot I see in this thread is **wishbone**. Who’s the person who’s making sweeping generalizations about people’s personalities and beliefs based on no other evidence than that they have a tattoo? That’s bigotry, Wish. \*\* Would it be redundant for me to say I agree, wishbone seems a bit close-minded judging by the post. Of course there’s not enough to work with using just that one quote. As to the OP, I don’t personally know of any racist connotations and add my support to what Duck Duck Goose said about them: the SS used a double lightning bolt that I believe was meant to be stylized SS’s. I met a guy in college who had a rune combination (I don’t remember which one) on his backpack which apparently was used by the Nazis. He said he gets hassled for it occasinally but after he explains what it means to him people usually calm down. So go for it. Get a lightning tattoo, just try not to get it 1930s art-deco as per DDG’s suggestion. (spelling error corrected - Jill) [Edited by JillGat on 06-24-2001 at 12:18 AM] ---
**Author:** ![Marvel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@Marvel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvel)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2001, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-lightning-bolt-a-racist-symbol/69876/14 "2001-06-24T04:37:02Z")
Lightening bolts racist?!?! That’s a new one for me. They usually make ME think of Captain Marvel! SHAZAM! Patty ---
**Author:** ![dragonlady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@dragonlady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dragonlady)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2001, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-lightning-bolt-a-racist-symbol/69876/15 "2001-06-24T04:52:03Z")
I can add that I have seen mail being returned from a state prison because it had a drawing of a lightning bolt on the envelope. It was stamped as being returned “due to a gang sign” being on the envelope. Beats me. ---
**Author:** ![\_Uigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/e9a140/32.png) [@\_Uigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_Uigi)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2001, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-lightning-bolt-a-racist-symbol/69876/16 "2001-06-24T05:01:02Z")
Another logo that comes to mind is the one the Strategic Air Command (USAF) used for years that had a gloved (armored) hand in the clouds holding a lightning bolt. Is that racist? Nah, don’t think so. Just good heraldry. ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2001, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-lightning-bolt-a-racist-symbol/69876/17 "2001-06-24T05:28:08Z")
Some Native American tribes here in New Mexico have used the swastika symbol, though turned the other direction from the Nazi symbol. That being said, I agree that “people are racists, not symbols” but I also think that it’s common decency to be sensitive about the use of symbols that others are offended by. I mean, why offend or hurt others if you don’t have to? Is it really all that important to fight for the “right” to use symbols that many see as racist? This is probably becoming a “great debate.” We’ll see. - Jill ---
**Author:** ![Devin\_Austra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/59ef9b/32.png) [@Devin\_Austra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Devin_Austra)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2001, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-lightning-bolt-a-racist-symbol/69876/18 "2001-06-24T05:30:19Z")
It amazes me that there are people who aren’t Caucasian who say all white people are racist just because they’re white. IMO, if you’re not Caucasian and you say that all white people are racist with no exceptions, then you’re racist. As a matter of fact… no matter what color/race/religion you are, if you say anyone who is of a different color/race/religion than you is racist based on that difference, with NO proof or reason whatsoever other than your own beliefs, then _ **you’re a fucking hypocrite.** _ ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2001, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-lightning-bolt-a-racist-symbol/69876/19 "2001-06-24T06:06:07Z")
Uh, Devin? Who said that here? ---
**Author:** ![Morrison\_s\_Lament](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Morrison\_s\_Lament](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morrison_s_Lament)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2001, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-lightning-bolt-a-racist-symbol/69876/20 "2001-06-24T06:16:54Z")
This topic is actually quite interesting to me since I’ve beren wanting to get a “swastika” tatoo, but not tilted, coloured or encircled. It’s quite a profound spiritual symbol if it’s drawn that way, and I can’t hate Hitler enough for ruining it for Hindus and Buddhists everywhere. I even know some people who refuse to buy Buddha statues if they have the symbol on Siddharta’s chest (a traditional depiction). I think the thunderbolt will be fine, but I’ll probably never have the guts to get a swastika, especially since I spend a lot of time around Africans and Asians, I’d hate to send out confusing signals. ☹ — G. Raven [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-lightning-bolt-a-racist-symbol/69876.md?page=2)