# Is a male actor refusing to kiss a man as part of playing a gay character anti-gay? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 23, 2009, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370 "2009-05-23T02:48:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/21 "2009-05-23T08:55:05Z")
> [@DaphneBlack](#): > > They used a double. > > I agree it sounds like, in this case, there may have been other factors. Still, I think that if you want to be an actor, you have to be prepared to do things that make you uncomfortable. Being an actor also usually means not having a say in what your character does and how it develops (especially at this level). > > A man in real life not wanting to kiss another man is hardly anti-gay. But this seems like the same situation as a ‘sex scene’ would be for an actor, if he wasn’t attracted to his partner. Actors in _high school_ are told to get over this sort of thing. This is why Will Smith not being able to do it was a pretty big deal. The director was rather pissed, and rightly so. Smith was just starting his acting career and here he was not being able to do something that **every** wannabe actor nowadays will be asked to do in acting class! ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/22 "2009-05-23T14:53:28Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > This is why Will Smith not being able to do it was a pretty big deal. The director was rather pissed, and rightly so. Smith was just starting his acting career and here he was not being able to do something that **every** wannabe actor nowadays will be asked to do in acting class! There have pretty much always been RUMORS that Will Smith was in the closet (ex-wife’s uncle, etc.). I wonder if he refused to do it because that would add fuel to that fire. As for the OP, I don’t see this as necessarily anti-gay, but just another aspect of the lingering effects of society’s squickiness in general with thoughts about what gay intimacy and sex entail. Can’t fault the man for that really but, as an actor and one in a field where there’s always hundred lined up to take your place, it does seem kind of dumb not to just suck it up and just do it. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/23 "2009-05-23T15:03:43Z")
Are there ever women who make a big deal out of stuff like this? Same sex kiss, I mean. Or is it more than most actresses make a huge deal out of getting naked? ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/24 "2009-05-23T16:26:09Z")
If he refused to kiss an African-American woman, does that make him a racist? If he refused to kiss a Jewish woman, does that make him a Jew-hater? Yes, yes, and to the OP, yes. We’re talking about a kiss here, not hot gay sex. ---
**Author:** ![Henrichek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@Henrichek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henrichek)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/25 "2009-05-23T17:09:20Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > If he refused to kiss an African-American woman, does that make him a racist? > If he refused to kiss a Jewish woman, does that make him a Jew-hater? > > Yes, yes, and to the OP, yes. We’re talking about a kiss here, not hot gay sex. I disagree. What makes a kiss acceptable but not hot gay sex? Why draw the line just after kissing? Your argument would work for any objection beyond kissing as well. For myself, and most other men I know, kissing another man is more than just being a little squicked out. It’s considered very distasteful and majorly disgusting. Is this different in the US? In my opinion that doesn’t make one anti-gay or homophobic. Refusing one’s character to be gay at all might be so, but demanding real kissing without faking it (by not actually kissing and just implying it to the viewers through use of camera angles or lighting) seems to be asking way too much from a straight man unless it has previously been agreed on in a contract. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/26 "2009-05-23T17:17:15Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > This is why Will Smith not being able to do it was a pretty big deal. The director was rather pissed, and rightly so. Smith was just starting his acting career and here he was not being able to do something that **every** wannabe actor nowadays will be asked to do in acting class! 1993 wasn’t nowadays. I don’t think you ever see Tom Hanks’ lips touch Antonio Banderas’ in **Philadelphia** , and Hanks is still getting kudos for his “brave” portrayal of a gay man. Also, as a wannabe actor who has taken way too many acting classes, I can say I have never been told to kiss a student of the same sex. In my experience, students are generally not told to kiss _anyone_ in class exercises. In fact, it’s usually understood that you don’t kiss people unless you’re sure it’s OK with them. ETA: I’ll kiss whomever they tell me to for a steady gig on a soap opera. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/27 "2009-05-23T17:21:54Z")
If an actor took a role that he knew up front was gay, then he should expect that kissing another man is likely to be part of that role, and if he was uncomfortable with that, he shouldn’t have taken the role in the first place. Here, though, the character was apparently originally straight, and the actor had no indication that he’d be going gay later in the series. Undoubtedly, some actors would go along with it anyway, but different people have different comfort zones, and I find it hard to fault the actor here. It seems analogous to the situation with nudity, to me: Some actresses refuse to do nude scenes, and that’s their prerogative. Such actresses should not accept roles where they play a stripper, since you can’t really play a stripper well without doing nude scenes. But if an actress were already playing a character when the writers decided she should become a stripper, the actress would be right to object. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/28 "2009-05-23T17:22:51Z")
**Side note:** I was in play that was a takeoff on _Gone With The Wind_, called _Gone With The Blend_ (all the actors were black). There was a scene where I (I’m gay) had to force myself on and kiss Harlot on the mouth. The difficult part was not the kiss, but the slap she gives me afterward. She never could get the understanding that is was not supposed to be a real slap.\* - As another character says in a typo’d line that the director decided to keep, “I felt like I been slappen into hell!” ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/29 "2009-05-23T17:36:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It seems analogous to the situation with nudity, to me: Some actresses refuse to do nude scenes, and that’s their prerogative. Such actresses should not accept roles where they play a stripper, since you can’t really play a stripper well without doing nude scenes. But if an actress were already playing a character when the writers decided she should become a stripper, the actress would be right to object. I see it as becoming a massage therapist. You get your license, open up shop and an obese person walks in, and you’re suddently all “whoa! What I meant by massage therapist is 'hot chicks only!” Not that that makes a person anti-fat, but people need to consider what they’re chosen career field might entail. If you can’t stand blood, maybe you don’t really want to be a nurse. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/30 "2009-05-23T18:42:48Z")
I think it’s within an actor’s purview to decide which roles and scenes may hold back his career. Things that worked well for Jake Gyllenhaal didn’t work so well for Ned Beatty. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/31 "2009-05-23T18:45:46Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > I think it’s within an actor’s purview to decide which roles and scenes may hold back his career. Things that worked well for Jake Gyllenhaal didn’t work so well for Ned Beatty. The link says, > [@](#): > > According to reports, Engen quit before his contact was up because he didn’t like the “dark direction” his character was going in on recent episodes, not due to his believing it would hold back his career. I’m thinking Ned Beatty’s career turned out fine, at least according to [imdb](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000885/). ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/32 "2009-05-23T18:58:19Z")
There are a lot of people in this thread arguing some variant of the point that actors should be prepared to do things they themselves wouldn’t normally do, because, hey, it’s part of the job. Okay, for the sake of argument, point granted. You have successfully shown that the guy is a bad actor. Now, please complete the logic chain from “bad actor” to “anti-gay”, because I’m not seeing it. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/33 "2009-05-23T19:45:14Z")
> [@choie](#): > > As far as I’m concerned, he’s a doof, a 'phobe, or a short-sighted chicken. Good luck to him after he gets a rep for being difficult. I agree with this. Lots of actors would kill for a role in a soap opera. Heck, I’ll bet that a lot of them would submit to the casting couch for the big break. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/34 "2009-05-23T20:58:49Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > The second article says he didn’t like the “dark direction” his character was taking and so I have to wonder if just his character turning gay is a “dark direction.” That shows a less than enlightened attitude. According to that link, the actor who took over the role says, “I get to indulge in some interesting, perverse, warped scenarios,” so I suspect there’s more than a simple romantic kiss involved here. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/35 "2009-05-23T21:37:35Z")
> [@TWDuke](#): > > According to that link, the actor who took over the role says, “I get to indulge in some interesting, perverse, warped scenarios,” so I suspect there’s more than a simple romantic kiss involved here. Well, he’s supposed to kiss [Yani Gellman.](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0312454/) That doesn’t strike me as all that gross, gay or straight. Here’s a better pic [and more dish.](http://www.afterelton.com/blog/lylemasaki/is-matt-muhey-rafe-torres-new-love-interest-the-young-and-the-restless) > [@](#): > > Branco adds that Engen hasn’t been happy with his character’s villainous ways and has previously staged a few sickouts in protest. Really though, we’re talking The Young & The Restless. Just how awful could it be? If nothing else he sounds like a prima donna who hopefully already has another job lined up. ---
**Author:** ![Gustav](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/919ad9/32.png) [@Gustav](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gustav)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/36 "2009-05-24T15:32:21Z")
> [@Roland\_Orzabal](#): > > There are a lot of people in this thread arguing some variant of the point that actors should be prepared to do things they themselves wouldn’t normally do, because, hey, it’s part of the job. > > Okay, for the sake of argument, point granted. You have successfully shown that the guy is a bad actor. Now, please complete the logic chain from “bad actor” to “anti-gay”, because I’m not seeing it. It’s possible I guess that he’s not anti-gay, but was simply genuinely surprised that an acting gig in a daytime soap entailed being asked to pretend-kiss someone he wasn’t attracted to. But he’d have to be pretty damn dense. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/37 "2009-05-24T16:21:39Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > My God, though, that actor’s Myspace is pretentious! Doesn’t mean he’s anti-gay or anything but man, he comes across as a fifteen-year-old who’s just discovered poetry and thinks they know the meaning of life. Yes, everyone please check out his song: “Again, the patient merit rouses And warns that though we keep to foot This path outstretched beyond the curve Returns, so here should stay we put.” …so here should stay we put? _“here should stay we put”_!? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2009, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/38 "2009-05-24T19:12:43Z")
Yoda: What the hell meant that? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2009, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/39 "2009-05-24T21:16:39Z")
> [@DaphneBlack](#): > > They used a double. They didn’t use a double. Will Smith just put his face in front of Anthony Michael Hall’s (the camera is behind Smith), and a kiss was dubbed in later. I think it would be funny if _Vanity Fair_ did one of those movie “alumni reunion” photos they’re famous for, except this time, Hall would be swooning in Smith’s arms, getting a big on-camera smooch. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2009, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/40 "2009-05-24T22:28:11Z")
Why did I know, almost unconsciously, when reading the thread title, that when I looked to see who the OP was, I’d see the name **astro**? Why was I so viscerally sure of this? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370.md?page=3)