# Is a male actor refusing to kiss a man as part of playing a gay character anti-gay? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 23, 2009, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370 "2009-05-23T02:48:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/41 "2009-05-24T22:35:49Z")
Whether he’s anti-gay or not is debatable. What’s not debatable is that he’s anti-acting and should find a different profession. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/42 "2009-05-25T03:16:08Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Whether he’s anti-gay or not is debatable. What’s not debatable is that he’s anti-acting and should find a different profession. :rolleyes: Oh please, there are plenty of acting jobs that wouldn’t require him to do anything he’s uncomfortable with. The vast majority of roles for men don’t involve kissing other men. It’s ridonkulous to say it’s something any actor should expect and be willing to do just because they’re actors. If anything, the writers/producers/whoever that came up with the changes fucked up by turning the character gay without first making sure the actor didn’t have a problem with kissing dudes. Maybe they’re anti-common sense. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/43 "2009-05-25T04:06:41Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > It’s ridonkulous to say it’s something any actor should expect and be willing to do just because they’re actors. Uh . . . good thing no one said that then, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/44 "2009-05-25T04:58:34Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Why did I know, almost unconsciously, when reading the thread title, that when I looked to see who the OP was, I’d see the name **astro**? Why was I so viscerally sure of this? The ancients called it [cosmic consciousness](http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=888&dat=19680505&id=cR0MAAAAIBAJ&sjid=sFwDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4603,3697919). ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/45 "2009-05-25T05:14:25Z")
Perhaps gay actors, male and female, should start refusing to kiss anyone not of their preferred gender. There would be damn fewer on-screen kisses. Straight guys can be such sissies. ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/46 "2009-05-25T05:27:18Z")
Does not wanting to do something mean you think it is wrong? I don’t think so. There are healthy foods out there I find disgusting even while knowing it would be good to eat them. For all we know, this guy thinks kissing another man would be a very good thing, nothing wrong with it, but unfortunately is too grossed out to do it. It doesn’t even make him a bad actor, though it does decrease his versatility and rightfully damages his job prospects. ---
**Author:** ![Henrichek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@Henrichek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henrichek)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/47 "2009-05-25T13:50:47Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Perhaps gay actors, male and female, should start refusing to kiss anyone not of their preferred gender. There would be damn fewer on-screen kisses. > > Straight guys can be such sissies. Are there a higher percentage of gays in the acting business than in the general population? I still guess that they are a definite minority and wouldn’t really be a problem. If gay actors are grossed out enough by kissing the opposite gender, then I wouldn’t hold that against them either, and a different actor should be chosen to play the character which has to make opposite gender kisses. To me it seems pretty straight forward. Gay actors for gay characters unless a straight actor signs off that he/she is alright with kissing the same gender, and straight actors for straight characters unless a gay actor signs off that he/she is okay with kissing the opposite gender. Just because it’s okay for you to kiss the same gender doesn’t mean that others feel the same, nor does it make them sissies. What other things that people feel is totally gross should an actor have to do to not be a sissy? ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/48 "2009-05-25T14:12:27Z")
There are plenty of Dopers with more acting experience than me so I’m sure someone knows more about this than I do, but it’s my understanding that stage/screen kissing almost never involves tongue or anything. There’s a whole technique to stage kissing that means it will look good to the audience without being more intimate than necessary for the actors. It’s unlikely that this actor was asked to play tonsil hockey with another man. Anecdote: I had a gay friend in high school whose role in the school play involved kissing an actress. He was rather uncomfortable with the idea – I remember him saying to me “She’s a nice girl and everything and I don’t want to offend her, but seriously, ew!” But some practice with stage kissing made him feel a little better about it, and in the end he just dealt with it. And this was a 16 year old kid in a school play. If this soap actor can’t manage that level of professionalism then it’s surprising he’s managed to make a career out of acting. ---
**Author:** ![Zephyurs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/dfb087/32.png) [@Zephyurs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zephyurs)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/49 "2009-05-25T15:30:52Z")
It’s probably better to call him homophobic (in the literalist sense of the term) instead of anti-gay. Cleary, he’s scared of or squicked out by homosexual actions and does not want them to be an immediate part of his life. No one’s asking him to be attracted to the person he’s kissing. There’ve been plenty of heterosexual actors who kissed and weren’t at all into each other but went ahead and kissed anyway. Presumably he would be willing to kiss a lady he wasn’t attracted to. The only change here, then, would be making it an activity labeled homosexual. He’s against performing his job just by that fact, which makes him homophobic. In all fairness, it’s a very light homophobia that a large majority of males share. Anti-gay, though, has much more political implications, and it would be very ungenerous to call him that. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/50 "2009-05-25T15:42:15Z")
what if you had a vegetarian actor who either HAD to eat REAL meat for a scene or be fired? Yeah they could fake it, but they can also fake kissing too. ---
**Author:** ![Zephyurs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/dfb087/32.png) [@Zephyurs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zephyurs)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/51 "2009-05-25T15:51:39Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > what if you had a vegetarian actor who either HAD to eat REAL meat for a scene or be fired? That would mean that the vegetarian is meatophobic. Big surprise. I don’t think anyone is denying that he had the right to quit. Every actor has certain lines they won’t cross in the name of art; that’s why most movies that have nudity explicitly say so. The crux of the issue is his presumably different reactions to kissing a man and kissing a woman. If he would quit for either of them, then he’s just anti-kissing. But quitting merely because he’s squicked out by engaging in a homosexual activity makes him homophobic. Not homophobic in the sense “all gay people should die!” but homophobic in the sense that “ewww actions that fall outside traditionally prescribed sexual activity are scary and gross!” ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/52 "2009-05-25T16:03:22Z")
> [@Henrichek](#): > > To me it seems pretty straight forward. Gay actors for gay characters unless a straight actor signs off that he/she is alright with kissing the same gender, and straight actors for straight characters unless a gay actor signs off that he/she is okay with kissing the opposite gender. Oh, come off it. Actors play roles, not themselves. > [@Henrichek](#): > > Just because it’s okay for you to kiss the same gender doesn’t mean that others feel the same, nor does it make them sissies. I’m completely straight, and I agree with panache. > [@Henrichek](#): > > What other things that people feel is totally gross should an actor have to do to not be a sissy? The job. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/53 "2009-05-25T16:22:59Z")
> [@Henrichek](#): > > To me it seems pretty straight forward. Gay actors for gay characters unless a straight actor signs off that he/she is alright with kissing the same gender, and straight actors for straight characters unless a gay actor signs off that he/she is okay with kissing the opposite gender. What about sweeps week, when 9/10 sitcoms feature girl-on-girl kisses? Anyway, that’s ludicrous, but I can’t tell if you’re joking. Bisexuals would run Hollywood, for christ’s sake! This guy sounds like a bit of a douche and not much of an actor, but perhaps he’s just gambling that his religious fanbase will carry him a lot longer than secular soap watchers (a few of them have already commented on his MySpace page). Maybe he sees the end is near for his character or career and wants to be able to live out his years in Lifetime movies or another _Left Behind_ sequel. And he’s pretty sure playing a gay character (which will inevitably lead to real-life rumors) will hurt his chances. ---
**Author:** ![Henrichek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@Henrichek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henrichek)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/54 "2009-05-25T16:28:22Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Oh, come off it. Actors play roles, not themselves. Right, but people are people and they have limits. You might think kisses are acceptable but others might not, it doesn’t make them a bad actor. Where on your sexual intimacy scale would you draw the line separating what’s acceptable and what’s not acceptable to throw into the script requiring an actor to do? I’d expect this to work the same way with non-sexual gross things. > [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > The job. I think the problem here is the definition of the job. It seems that the contract did not cover this character trait, or there would be no controversy if he had signed to it. If this had been known up front there would have been no problem. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/55 "2009-05-25T16:31:32Z")
> [@Henrichek](#): > > Right, but people are people and they have limits. You might think kisses are acceptable but others might not, it doesn’t make them a bad actor. Kids in _high school plays_ kiss. Professional actors cannot plausibly claim that kissing is beyond their limits, or if they do, they shouldn’t be in the business. > [@Henrichek](#): > > It seems that the contract did not cover this character trait, or there would be no controversy if he had signed to it. If this had been known up front there would have been no problem. If this were an ordinary sitcom, I would have less of a problem; soap characters can change radically to keep the audience interested in the show. Nobody knows what the character is going to be like in 5 years, not even the writers. ---
**Author:** ![Henrichek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@Henrichek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henrichek)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/56 "2009-05-25T16:31:46Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > What about sweeps week, when 9/10 sitcoms feature girl-on-girl kisses? Anyway, that’s ludicrous, but I can’t tell if you’re joking. Bisexuals would run Hollywood, for christ’s sake! I’m not joking. Well, it probably shows that I don’t watch this sort of shows much, but is it really that common for characters to “turn gay” all of a sudden? Is that really the norm? ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/57 "2009-05-25T16:48:35Z")
From the original link: "According to reports, Engen quit before his contact was up because he didn’t like the “dark direction” his character was going in on recent episodes. " So a) it’s secondhand reporting and b) the gay kiss was just part of the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/58 "2009-05-25T19:54:36Z")
> [@Henrichek](#): > > I’m not joking. Well, it probably shows that I don’t watch this sort of shows much, but is it really that common for characters to “turn gay” all of a sudden? Is that really the norm? Considering that people are constantly returning from the dead in soap operas, I’d say that “turning gay” is pretty tame. (And yes, said actor is being an idiot) ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/59 "2009-05-25T20:02:14Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Anecdote: I had a gay friend in high school whose role in the school play involved kissing an actress. He was rather uncomfortable with the idea – I remember him saying to me “She’s a nice girl and everything and I don’t want to offend her, but seriously, ew!” But some practice with stage kissing made him feel a little better about it, and in the end he just dealt with it. And this was a 16 year old kid in a school play. If this soap actor can’t manage that level of professionalism then it’s surprising he’s managed to make a career out of acting. I had that exact same experience in high school . . . except that the girl hated me, because I got the part rather than her boyfriend. Just before the kiss she ate a clove of raw garlic, as if I weren’t already repulsed by her. The drama teacher, who knew I was gay, and who found out about the garlic, commended me for pulling off one of the most difficult stage kisses in history. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370/60 "2009-05-25T20:43:28Z")
> [@Henrichek](#): > > To me it seems pretty straight forward. Gay actors for gay characters unless a straight actor signs off that he/she is alright with kissing the same gender, and straight actors for straight characters unless a gay actor signs off that he/she is okay with kissing the opposite gender. Wow. That’s pretty . . . fucked up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-male-actor-refusing-to-kiss-a-man-as-part-of-playing-a-gay-character-anti-gay/497370.md?page=4)