# Is a military draft ever justified? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 9, 2026, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-military-draft-ever-justified/1033707 "2026-10-09T19:10:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2026, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-military-draft-ever-justified/1033707/21 "2026-10-09T23:02:11Z")
I remember reading “Chance and Circumstance”, a book about the Vietnam era draft: > **[Chance and circumstance : the draft, the war, and the Vietnam generation :...](https://archive.org/details/chancecircumstan00bask)** > > Bibliography: p. 291-300 IIRC, the author pointed out that it was overwhelmingly the poor and uneducated who ended up going to Vietnam. I _think_ we pretty much accept that as fact today. So with this in mind, I think drafting people into the military is usually a bad idea. I don’t think anyone has mentioned Israel yet in this thread. They have mandatory military service for most people. What do we think of that? Is it morally different than a draft? I suppose it depends on whether there is a war on, and what sort of war it is. Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2026, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-military-draft-ever-justified/1033707/22 "2026-10-10T00:00:07Z")
Israel has always had compulsory military service, since 1948, so it was not linked to any single specific war. I do not know how easy it is to get out of if you are rich as opposed to “poor and uneducated”. Apparently you can get out of it by being too Arab, too religious, or for a few other reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2026, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-military-draft-ever-justified/1033707/23 "2026-10-10T00:19:27Z")
[Slovik was the only service member the United States military executed for desertion during World War II.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Slovik) I think asserting he was daring the military to kill him is a it of a stretch. The war for the US had been going on for three years and others who deserted were not shot or hanged. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2026, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-military-draft-ever-justified/1033707/24 "2026-10-10T00:35:07Z")
In Britain, a whole bunch of soldiers were [executed](https://spartacus-educational.com/FWWexecutions.htm) during WW1 for offenses such as desertion, cowardice, and sleeping at their post, but such penalties were [abolished in 1930](https://heritage.humanists.uk/object/shootings-at-dawn/), in parallel with increased understanding of PTSD and shell-shock. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2026, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-military-draft-ever-justified/1033707/25 "2026-10-10T00:43:48Z")
If we wanted to be able to draft people, then we shouldn’t have passed a constitutional amendment prohibiting it. Is slavery allowable? It’s a yes or no question. The answer isn’t “only if the slavers really, really want to do it”. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2026, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-military-draft-ever-justified/1033707/26 "2026-10-10T00:53:46Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If we wanted to be able to draft people, then we shouldn’t have passed a constitutional amendment prohibiting it. What? ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2026, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-military-draft-ever-justified/1033707/27 "2026-10-10T00:55:22Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > As to the original question, I do think it is a form of evil to draft people but also justifiable. As a utilitarian, I simply cannot parse this. I will, however, note that I think the proper way to enlist soldiers to fight in a brutal war is to lay whatever needs to be paid to enlist volunteers. If it’s truly necessary, then the nation should be willing to pay through the nose for it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2026, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-military-draft-ever-justified/1033707/28 "2026-10-10T01:01:29Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > What? The Fourteenth Amendment very clearly prohibits involuntary servitude. A military draft is very clearly involuntary servitude. The government has never taken this argument seriously, but their argument is generally just “no, of course the law doesn’t mean what it very obviously and very clearly does mean”. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2026, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-military-draft-ever-justified/1033707/29 "2026-10-10T01:05:36Z")
If it were really unconstitutional, seems the Vietnam draft would have seen it be challenged before SCOTUS. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2026, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-military-draft-ever-justified/1033707/30 "2026-10-10T01:05:56Z")
I find that a strange take. I really don’t think equating the draft to slavery is remotely correct. It is somewhat tortured logic. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2026, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-military-draft-ever-justified/1033707/31 "2026-10-10T01:06:21Z")
I am not sure it literally says that. For example, it includes text like “…nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law…”, but no State is suggesting that imprisoning criminals or conscripting cannon fodder is outside due process of law. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2026, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-military-draft-ever-justified/1033707/32 "2026-10-10T01:10:17Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The Fourteenth Amendment very clearly prohibits involuntary servitude. You mean the 13th amendment, I am sure. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2026, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-military-draft-ever-justified/1033707/33 "2026-10-10T01:31:15Z")
> **[Selective Draft Law Cases](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_Draft_Law_Cases)** > > Arver v. United States, 245 U.S. 366 (1918), also known as the Selective Draft Law Cases, was a series of United States Supreme Court decisions united under the Arver name which upheld the Selective Service Act of 1917, and more generally upheld conscription in the United States. The Supreme Court held that conscription did not violate the Thirteenth Amendment's prohibition of involuntary servitude or the First Amendment's protection of freedom of conscience. The Solicitor General's argument an... > The Supreme Court held that conscription did not violate the [Thirteenth Amendment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution "Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution")’s prohibition of [involuntary servitude](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involuntary_servitude "Involuntary servitude") or the [First Amendment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution "First Amendment to the United States Constitution")’s protection of [freedom of conscience](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_conscience "Freedom of conscience"). ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2026, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-military-draft-ever-justified/1033707/34 "2026-10-10T02:28:07Z")
Oh, what authority does SCOTUS have to interpret the US Constitution anyway. 👎 ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2026, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-military-draft-ever-justified/1033707/35 "2026-10-10T08:14:44Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Israel has always had compulsory military service, since 1948, so it was not linked to any single specific war. I do not know how easy it is to get out of if you are rich as opposed to “poor and uneducated”. Because of its small size and unique risks, Israel’s policy has always been to draft as many soldiers as possible during times of peace, so that it’ll have huge reserves of trained civilians to call up immediately during times of war. People from all courses of life still get out of service, of course, but I don’t think rich people dodge more than poor do. If anything, the core of the IDF is the Israeli middle class. ---
**Author:** ![dcbwhaley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcbwhaley/32/21437_2.png) [@dcbwhaley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dcbwhaley)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2026, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-military-draft-ever-justified/1033707/36 "2026-10-10T14:25:30Z")
No draftee is **forced** to kill anyone. They have the option of discharging their weapon harmlessly ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2026, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-military-draft-ever-justified/1033707/37 "2026-10-10T14:34:19Z")
Yes, I know that the Supreme Court has rejected the argument. But they never gave any actual reason for rejecting it. Conscription is servitude, and it is, by definition, involuntary. How can one interpret it as not being involuntary servitude? And yes, before anyone says it, I know that draftees get paid. That’s completely irrelevant. Paid involuntary servitude is still prohibited, and unpaid voluntary servitude is still permitted. ---
**Author:** ![We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2026, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-military-draft-ever-justified/1033707/38 "2026-10-10T14:53:48Z")
the Court’s reasoning certainly involved a good bit of hand waving, but the social contract implication and the draft as a civic duty (the common law duties citizens owe to a state) had certain appeal in the midst of WW1, and an originalist could certainly find support that historical intent of the 13th amendment was not to abolish the draft. I think a stronger argument could be made for opposing mandatory jury duty under the 13th Amendment. The stakes are far lower and alternatives are much more available. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2026, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-military-draft-ever-justified/1033707/39 "2026-10-10T15:27:46Z")
Way I see it, if your country can’t survive through enough people volunteering when it needs them to, do you even have a country? > [@Alessan](#): > > A country’s first obligation is survival. If draft is necessary for a country to survive, then it is not only justified, it is a moral neccessity. That was certainly the argument used by [the Apartheid government in South Africa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_South_Africa). ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2026, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-military-draft-ever-justified/1033707/40 "2026-10-10T15:32:05Z")
True. But they don’t always have the choice about getting killed. When faced with a one-on-one him-or-me situation rather few people would prefer to be the loser. Not zero, but very few. Which I interpret to mean that as between being forced into being killed or doing killing, most folks would be a lot more upset about the former than the latter. And so that’s the real imposition of a draft: being involuntarily forced into a situation where you have a real likelihood of being killed. Or maimed. Or psychologically ruined. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-military-draft-ever-justified/1033707.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-military-draft-ever-justified/1033707.md?page=3)