# Is a presidential Pardon all powerful? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 3, 2007, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-presidential-pardon-all-powerful/410295 "2007-07-03T00:15:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ChrisBooth12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@ChrisBooth12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChrisBooth12)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-presidential-pardon-all-powerful/410295/1 "2007-07-03T00:15:28Z")
In other words if the vice president shot somebody in the face (hehe) and killed them, on puplic television and then stated it was premeditated and he did he purposely to kill the said person. Could Bush just say, well forget about it he isnt going to jail? ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-presidential-pardon-all-powerful/410295/2 "2007-07-03T00:22:37Z")
[QUOTE=ChrisBooth12] In other words if the vice president shot somebody in the face (hehe) and killed them, on puplic television and then stated it was premeditated and he did he purposely to kill the said person. Could Bush just say, well forget about it he isnt going to jail? [/QUOTE] As long as it’s a federal crime, yes. Any murders committed in Washington DC would fall under federal jurisdiction. Bush would be impeached in record time, but the pardon would still stand as the power to pardon is absolute and irrevocable. If Cheney shot somebody on TV and the crime occured in Maryland (just to use an example) the Maryland authorities could arrest him and tell Bush to take a hike. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-presidential-pardon-all-powerful/410295/3 "2007-07-03T00:32:48Z")
[QUOTE=Blalron] …If Cheney shot somebody on TV and the crime occured in Maryland (just to use an example) the Maryland authorities could arrest him and tell Bush to take a hike. [/QUOTE] What if Cheney was standing on the Maryland/DC border and fired a gun into Maryland? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-presidential-pardon-all-powerful/410295/4 "2007-07-03T00:37:21Z")
> [@](#): > > What if Cheney was standing on the Maryland/DC border and fired a gun into Maryland? Dick, is that _you_? ---
**Author:** ![11811](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/9d8465/32.png) [@11811](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/11811)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-presidential-pardon-all-powerful/410295/5 "2007-07-03T00:38:31Z")
[QUOTE=alphaboi867] What if Cheney was standing on the Maryland/DC border and fired a gun into Maryland? [/QUOTE] Better yet, what if Cheney was standing on a treadmill? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-presidential-pardon-all-powerful/410295/6 "2007-07-03T00:39:24Z")
[QUOTE=alphaboi867] What if Cheney was standing on the Maryland/DC border and fired a gun into Maryland? [/QUOTE] It’d probably be both state and federal then. Bush could pardon Cheney for the federal aspect of it. But what if Cheney is wanted in Maryland and Bush refuses to extradite? ---
**Author:** ![ChrisBooth12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@ChrisBooth12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChrisBooth12)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-presidential-pardon-all-powerful/410295/7 "2007-07-03T00:44:54Z")
Could the president pardon himself if he put forth the pardon before his impechment? ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-presidential-pardon-all-powerful/410295/8 "2007-07-03T00:48:57Z")
I imagine not, as he can hardly pardon himself (or anyone else) when he has not yet been convicted of anything. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-presidential-pardon-all-powerful/410295/9 "2007-07-03T01:01:14Z")
> [@](#): > > As long as it’s a federal crime, yes. Any murders committed in Washington DC would fall under federal jurisdiction. Bush would be impeached in record time, but the pardon would still stand as the power to pardon is absolute and irrevocable. Presumably, Cheney would also be impeached, and impeachement is specific exception to the President’s pardon power in the Constitution. This didn’t come up in the Watergate case when Ford pardoned Nixon, because Nixon was never officially impeached (he resigned before they had the opportunity, though he almost certainly would have been had he not). ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-presidential-pardon-all-powerful/410295/10 "2007-07-03T01:08:24Z")
[QUOTE=Askance] I imagine not, as he can hardly pardon himself (or anyone else) when he has not yet been convicted of anything. [/QUOTE] Not true. Ford pardoned Nixon before any charges had been filed. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-presidential-pardon-all-powerful/410295/11 "2007-07-03T01:10:16Z")
[QUOTE=Chronos] Presumably, Cheney would also be impeached, and impeachement is specific exception to the President’s pardon power in the Constitution. This didn’t come up in the Watergate case when Ford pardoned Nixon, because Nixon was never officially impeached (he resigned before they had the opportunity, though he almost certainly would have been had he not). [/QUOTE] That’s the problem. All a President needs to do is scrible “I hereby pardon myself” on one cocktail napkin and then “I resign my office” on the next one and he’s untouchable. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-presidential-pardon-all-powerful/410295/12 "2007-07-03T09:34:43Z")
Pardon me?: The constitutional case against Presidential self-pardons , 106 Yale Law Journal 3:779 (1997). ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-presidential-pardon-all-powerful/410295/13 "2007-07-03T12:19:19Z")
[QUOTE=Telemark] Not true. Ford pardoned Nixon before any charges had been filed. [/QUOTE] Presidential pardons can also take the form of blanket amnesty over an entire class of individuals. For example President Madison pardoned all deserters during the War of 1812 in an attempt to get them to go back to their units, Lincoln did the same during the American Civil War. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-presidential-pardon-all-powerful/410295/14 "2007-07-03T12:26:28Z")
[QUOTE=Blalron] It’d probably be both state and federal then. Bush could pardon Cheney for the federal aspect of it. But what if Cheney is wanted in Maryland and Bush refuses to extradite? [/QUOTE] Does the president have any power over extraditions from DC? That is, could he really block such an extradition? ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-presidential-pardon-all-powerful/410295/15 "2007-07-03T14:18:10Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] Presidential pardons can also take the form of blanket amnesty over an entire class of individuals. For example President Madison pardoned all deserters during the War of 1812 in an attempt to get them to go back to their units, Lincoln did the same during the American Civil War. [/QUOTE] President Carter also issued pardons to all Vietnam-era draft dodgers. ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-presidential-pardon-all-powerful/410295/16 "2007-07-03T14:24:01Z")
[QUOTE=Telemark] Not true. Ford pardoned Nixon before any charges had been filed. [/QUOTE] Before he had been impeached, yes, but the articles of impeachment had been drafted and the judiciary committee had voted on them. My point is that the charges against Nixon were formally documented. However, it is also worth noting that Ford’s pardon did not refer specifically to those charges, but rather was a blanket pardon for all offenses he might have committed during his time in office. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-presidential-pardon-all-powerful/410295/17 "2007-07-03T18:15:21Z")
[QUOTE=psychonaut] Does the president have any power over extraditions from DC? That is, could he really block such an extradition? [/QUOTE] The president plays no part in the extradition process in the District of Columbia. District of Columbia Official Code, §23-704 > [@](#): > > In all cases where the laws of the United States provide that fugitives from justice shall be delivered up, the chief judge of the Superior Court [of the District of Columbia] shall cause to be apprehended and delivered up fugitives from justice who shall be found within the District of Columbia, in the same manner and under the same regulations as the executive authority of a State is required to do by the provisions of chapter 209 of Title 18, United States Code, and all executive and judicial officers are required to obey the lawful precepts or other process issued for that purpose, and to aid and assist in that delivery. . . . Any associate judge designated by the chief judge or acting chief judge shall have the same power to act pursuant to this section as the chief judge. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-presidential-pardon-all-powerful/410295/18 "2007-07-03T19:03:50Z")
[QUOTE=Walloon] Pardon me?: The constitutional case against Presidential self-pardons , 106 Yale Law Journal 3:779 (1997). [/QUOTE] Perhaps you could supply an online link. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-presidential-pardon-all-powerful/410295/19 "2007-07-03T19:08:41Z")
No online link, unless you subscribe to Lexis or Westlaw. ---
**Author:** ![Rediff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e47774/32.png) [@Rediff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rediff)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-presidential-pardon-all-powerful/410295/20 "2007-07-03T23:50:46Z")
Carter did pardon Vietnam draft evaders. He excluded deserters, or those who chose to get less than honorable discharges (in order to get out of serving). It also excluded civilians who protested. It also excluded all those who participate in any act of violence. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-presidential-pardon-all-powerful/410295.md?page=2)