# Is 'a radicalized Muslim' a meaningful term in 2016? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 4, 2016, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-radicalized-muslim-a-meaningful-term-in-2016/761725 "2016-08-04T09:46:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-radicalized-muslim-a-meaningful-term-in-2016/761725/101 "2016-08-15T00:39:01Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I make no claims on God since there seems to be an appalling lack of personal appearances. I’m just pointing out the philosophical differences of the people claiming to represent a religion. You seem to want to argue about religion. Truly not interested. I’m pointing out the differences within the people who started religion(s) as the basis for the behavior of it’s most ardent followers. > > What it comes down to is this. You are ignoring the level of influence the lifestyle of a prophet has on his/her followers. I say it matters and has to be dealt with on that level before change will occur. Ok, so have you read Exodus recently? Or Numbers or Duteronomy? Because Moses is crazy violent. He murders a who heck of a lot of people for the Golden calf thing. Only, what is usually forgotten is that the people worshiping the calf were intending it to be a representation of Jehova. So they got killed, not for worshiping a wrong God but for worshiping the right God in the wrong way. You wouldn’t say that Jews are particularly violent would you? Or are you saying they have evolved beyond that? Not JAQing actually wanting to make sure I understand your position. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-radicalized-muslim-a-meaningful-term-in-2016/761725/102 "2016-08-15T00:42:05Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I make no claims on God since there seems to be an appalling lack of personal appearances. I’m just pointing out the philosophical differences of the people claiming to represent a religion. You seem to want to argue about religion. Truly not interested. I’m pointing out the differences within the people who started religion(s) as the basis for the behavior of it’s most ardent followers. > > What it comes down to is this. You are ignoring the level of influence the lifestyle of a prophet has on his/her followers. I say it matters and has to be dealt with on that level before change will occur. If all you’re saying is that it matters, then there’s no disagreement. If you’re saying there’s something special or unique about the Quran, then I’m disagreeing with you. And more than that, I’m saying that your preferred strategy helps ISIL and other extremist and hurts efforts to oppose extremist violence. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-radicalized-muslim-a-meaningful-term-in-2016/761725/103 "2016-08-15T00:58:54Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Ok, so have you read Exodus recently? Or Numbers or Duteronomy? Because Moses is crazy violent. He murders a who heck of a lot of people for the Golden calf thing. Only, what is usually forgotten is that the people worshiping the calf were intending it to be a representation of Jehova. So they got killed, not for worshiping a wrong God but for worshiping the right God in the wrong way. that’s all lovely but none of that is reflected in the man called Jesus. He didn’t write the Bible. He didn’t write anything. He didn’t kill anyone. The mythology behind the religion is that he healed people, hung around prostitutes and sacrificed himself. His last act was to ask God to forgive those who killed him. The lifestyle of Mohammad was decidedly different. He was the creator of the Quran. It wasn’t thrown together years later by other people. those are his/God’s words. Those who claim to follow Jesus’s lifestyle have a different playbook to work with than those who follow Mohammad’s lifestyle. This is completely ignored in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-radicalized-muslim-a-meaningful-term-in-2016/761725/104 "2016-08-15T01:11:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > that’s all lovely but none of that is reflected in the man called Jesus. He didn’t write the Bible. He didn’t write anything. He didn’t kill anyone. The mythology behind the religion is that he healed people, hung around prostitutes and sacrificed himself. His last act was to ask God to forgive those who killed him. > > . You didn’t actually read my post. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-radicalized-muslim-a-meaningful-term-in-2016/761725/105 "2016-08-15T01:16:41Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I linked a PEW study that showed 400 million Muslims approved of harsh laws regarding apostasy and blasphemy. That is not a tiny minority. That’s a lot of people. It’s still a minority, which contradicts your earlier claim. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-radicalized-muslim-a-meaningful-term-in-2016/761725/106 "2016-08-15T01:20:29Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > What Muslim majority country would you feel safe in drawing a cartoon criticizing Mohammad? I’m genuinely curious. I believe I’d be fairly safe in Indonesia, Malaysia, or Brunei. I’m not sure about Qatar or Kuwait, but I believe I’d generally be left alone. [Here is an article pointing to Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan as moderate Islamic nations](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/27/opinion/moderate-islam-look-to-central-asia.html?_r=0). Meanwhile, do you imagine I’d be absolutely safe in many places in the U.S. if I published a cartoon critical of Jesus? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-radicalized-muslim-a-meaningful-term-in-2016/761725/107 "2016-08-15T01:23:19Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > You didn’t actually read my post. ☹ You’ve never addressed my point. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-radicalized-muslim-a-meaningful-term-in-2016/761725/108 "2016-08-15T01:25:07Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > It’s still a minority, which contradicts your earlier claim. The survey did not involve all Muslims. Even so it represents the beliefs of 400 million people. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-radicalized-muslim-a-meaningful-term-in-2016/761725/109 "2016-08-15T01:28:18Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You’ve never addressed my point. Because I’m not sure I understand it. Can you rephrase? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-radicalized-muslim-a-meaningful-term-in-2016/761725/110 "2016-08-15T01:30:21Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I believe I’d be fairly safe in Indonesia, Malaysia, or Brunei. I’m not sure about Qatar or Kuwait, but I believe I’d generally be left alone. [Here is an article pointing to Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan as moderate Islamic nations](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/27/opinion/moderate-islam-look-to-central-asia.html?_r=0). > > Meanwhile, do you imagine I’d be absolutely safe in many places in the U.S. if I published a cartoon critical of Jesus? You’ve reduced your argument to absolutes. Which now makes anything you say a handwave of the overwhelmingly disproportionate amount of violence done in the name of religion. You are now left with references to other religions hundreds of years ago as a redirect away from the point I’ve made from the beginning. You cannot ignore the influence of a prophet’s lifestyle over his/her followers. And that’s what you’re doing. This must be addressed before any major changes occur. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-radicalized-muslim-a-meaningful-term-in-2016/761725/111 "2016-08-15T01:34:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > that’s all lovely but none of that is reflected in the man called Jesus. He didn’t write the Bible. He didn’t write anything. He didn’t kill anyone. The mythology behind the religion is that he healed people, hung around prostitutes and sacrificed himself. His last act was to ask God to forgive those who killed him. > > The lifestyle of Mohammad was decidedly different. He was the creator of the Quran. It wasn’t thrown together years later by other people. those are his/God’s words. Yes, it was “thrown together years later by other people”. Are you under the impression that Mohammed actually wrote the Koran? It was probably written down sooner after his death that the earliest Gospel was after Jesus’ death, but it wasn’t written down while he was alive. In fact, it’s unclear whether or not Mohammed could write. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-radicalized-muslim-a-meaningful-term-in-2016/761725/112 "2016-08-15T01:35:27Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Meanwhile, do you imagine I’d be absolutely safe in many places in the U.S. if I published a cartoon critical of Jesus? ignoring your attempt at an absolute, Yes, I believe you would be safe anywhere in the United States making fun of Jesus. We as a nation cherish that right as a public pastime. I can go down to the local art museum right now and buy a toaster that imprints the mother of Jesus on it. It’s easily the most satirized religion on the planet and God bless America for it. We have a sense of humor. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-radicalized-muslim-a-meaningful-term-in-2016/761725/113 "2016-08-15T01:38:18Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > ignoring your attempt at an absolute, Yes, I believe you would be safe anywhere in the United States making fun of Jesus. We as a nation cherish that right as a public pastime. > > I can go down to the local art museum right now and buy a toaster that imprints the mother of Jesus on it. It’s easily the most satirized religion on the planet and God bless America for it. We have a sense of humor. Fair, but there are parts of my state where I do not feel safe having people know I don’t believe in Jesus. I can make fun of him but being a non believer (and worse a jew) puts me in very real danger. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-radicalized-muslim-a-meaningful-term-in-2016/761725/114 "2016-08-15T01:39:34Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yes, it was “thrown together years later by other people”. Are you under the impression that Mohammed actually wrote the Koran? from Wiki: Muslims believe the Quran was verbally revealed by God to Muhammad through the angel Gabriel (Jibril), Are you seriously going to say he wasn’t responsible for it because he didn’t physically write it? Were his scribes sticking it to him? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-radicalized-muslim-a-meaningful-term-in-2016/761725/115 "2016-08-15T01:43:57Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Fair, but there are parts of my state where I do not feel safe having people know I don’t believe in Jesus. I can make fun of him but being a non believer (and worse a jew) puts me in very real danger. While you may feel this I’m calling bullshit on the claim. I can go into any hillbilly bar anywhere in the US and make fun of Jesus without fear of getting tossed off a building. If you’re expecting a parade then yes, you won’t driving in an open convertible waving to the crowd. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-radicalized-muslim-a-meaningful-term-in-2016/761725/116 "2016-08-15T01:47:38Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > While you may feel this I’m calling bullshit on the claim. I can go into any hillbilly bar anywhere in the US and make fun of Jesus without fear of getting tossed off a building. If you’re expecting a parade then yes, you won’t driving in an open convertible waving to the crowd. Yes, you can. If you are a white Christian. Then it’s all good. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-radicalized-muslim-a-meaningful-term-in-2016/761725/117 "2016-08-15T02:35:41Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > from Wiki: Muslims believe the Quran was verbally revealed by God to Muhammad through the angel Gabriel (Jibril), So what? You were talking about what actually happened, not what some people believe. > [@](#): > > Are you seriously going to say he wasn’t responsible for it because he didn’t physically write it? Were his scribes sticking it to him? I’m seriously saying that you are wrong. Mohammed did not write the Koran, and no actual scholars think he did. How much of it he is “responsible for” is not known. If you know, you should publish that knowledge. You would be accorded great scholarly veneration. If you’re right, that is. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-radicalized-muslim-a-meaningful-term-in-2016/761725/118 "2016-08-15T03:04:46Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > So what? You were talking about what actually happened, not what some people believe. Are you fucking serious? > [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m seriously saying that you are wrong. Mohammed did not write the Koran, and no actual scholars think he did. How much of it he is “responsible for” is not known. If you know, you should publish that knowledge. You would be accorded great scholarly veneration. If you’re right, that is. cite an Islamic scholar who thinks Mohammad was not the instrument of the Quran as told to him by the Angel Gabriel. It is the corner stone on the religion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-radicalized-muslim-a-meaningful-term-in-2016/761725.md?page=5)