# Is a Shirley Temple a gateway drug? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 21, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-shirley-temple-a-gateway-drug/332101 "2005-11-21T17:41:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-shirley-temple-a-gateway-drug/332101/21 "2005-11-21T20:54:20Z")
> [@Sal Ammoniac](#): > > But the point of my question really is about parents who order a Shirley Temple, as opposed to, say, a Sprite for their kids. Are these parents who typically drink themselves, and are they helping their kids play-act drinking? To me the parental drinking-Shirley Temple connection seems pretty strong, but I could be wrong. When my brother and I were kids and out for dinner with the folks, what appealed to us about the Shirley Temples was the fact that they contained cherries. The underlying logic of having them at all was presumably that dining out was a special occasion to be celebrated and everyone deserved a special drink. Our parents drank alcohol at home, but just basic things like beer or whisky-and-soda; when eating out they’d have slightly more complicated cocktails like silver fizzes or perhaps a Martini. Same thing with us…sodas, milk, or juice at home, and Shirley Temples out. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-shirley-temple-a-gateway-drug/332101/22 "2005-11-21T20:55:40Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > Just so you know, when you order ginger ale or something with ginger ale in a bar, you’re getting a glass of 7-Up or Sprite with a splash of cola (for color…doesn’t do anything to the taste). I’ve never seen actual ginger ale on tap anywhere, and it would be a highly unusual place that would keep it around in bottles. So even if you think you’re getting ginger ale, you’re most likely not. The first time I had _real_ ginger ale–Sprecher Ginger Ale–I just about gagged; it actually tastes like ginger. It puts your Canada Dry and Schweppes stuff to shame. > > Stranger Outback and a number of other restaurants use real ginger ale. At least they do around here. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-shirley-temple-a-gateway-drug/332101/23 "2005-11-21T20:55:42Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > When my brother and I were kids and out for dinner with the folks, what appealed to us about the Shirley Temples was the fact that they contained cherries. The underlying logic was presumably that dining out was a special occasion This post happened because I hit return too soon; can a moderator delete it? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-shirley-temple-a-gateway-drug/332101/24 "2005-11-21T21:04:02Z")
Shirley Temple = Ginger ale and the juice from a marischino cherry jar (plus a cherry or two). And most bars do still have ginger ale – there are still mixed drinks that include it. I know the difference between real ginger ale and sprite mixed with cola; the carbonation alone tells the tale. I can’t imagine a restaurant serving grenadine in a Shirley Temple – they could get their liquor license pulled (for the same reason they can’t serve creme de menthe over ice cream to kids: if you serve anyone under the legal drinking age, you’re in trouble. Big trouble, and no restaurant dares risk losing its liquor license.) And, of course it’s not a gateway drug. I agree that there’s no such thing. ---
**Author:** ![Club\_33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@Club\_33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Club_33)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-shirley-temple-a-gateway-drug/332101/25 "2005-11-21T21:20:39Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > I can’t imagine a restaurant serving grenadine in a Shirley Temple – they could get their liquor license pulled (for the same reason they can’t serve creme de menthe over ice cream to kids: if you serve anyone under the legal drinking age, you’re in trouble. Big trouble, and no restaurant dares risk losing its liquor license.) Umm, no. Grenadine is a syrup made from pomegranates and contains no alcohol. How would serving it get someones license revoked? [Grenadine](http://www.drinksmixer.com/desc102.html) ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-shirley-temple-a-gateway-drug/332101/26 "2005-11-21T21:24:32Z")
First it’s a Shirley Temple. Then someone slips you a Mickey Rooney. Then you’re spiking women’s drinks with Bay Ruufies. And it’s all downhill from there. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-shirley-temple-a-gateway-drug/332101/27 "2005-11-21T21:27:42Z")
Sorry, I couldn’t remember whether or not they were made with sprite or ginger ale. It’s been a while since I had one. Quite frankly, I think they’re nice for kids-let them pretend to be “grown up”-that’s always fun. And they’re pretty tasty for those of us who can’t drink for whatever reason. I don’t know WHAT bars you attend, **Stranger On A Train** , but I’ve never ordered a ginger ale and had it turn out to be colored Sprite. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-shirley-temple-a-gateway-drug/332101/28 "2005-11-21T21:28:02Z")
First it’s a Shirley Temple. Then someone slips you a Mickey Rooney. Then you’re spiking women’s drinks with **BaBE** Ruufies. And it’s all downhill from there. ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-shirley-temple-a-gateway-drug/332101/29 "2005-11-21T21:44:12Z")
People want to deny that a Shirley Temple is a gateway to a life of vice, but I have to say, the amount of double-posting in this thread just confirms my worst fears. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-shirley-temple-a-gateway-drug/332101/30 "2005-11-21T22:02:31Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I don’t know WHAT bars you attend, **Stranger On A Train** , but I’ve never ordered a ginger ale and had it turn out to be colored Sprite. Well, I’ve tended a few bars, and when out and about by myself I generally sit at the bar near the drinks station, and I see this all the time. I don’t doubt that some places stock bottled ginger ale, but I’ve never seen in on a speedgun anywhere, and I’d wager good money that 9 out of 10 random bars are just mixing 7-Up and Coke to make “ginger ale”. Yes, the taste is very different, but frankly I don’t think most people notice what the hell is going into their drinks in the first place. “Oh, that looks pretty! I’ll have one of those!” is the most oft-heard comment at my current favorite watering hole in reference to their selection of exotics; never mind what actually goes into them. (Pineapple juice and lemonade with Gran Marnier? Who the ufkc in their right mind would pay eight bucks for that? Drunk Angelenos, appearently.) FWIW (and it ain’t worth all that much) this is also what they advised in barte^H^H^H^H^HMixology ( :rolleyes: ) school. 'Course, they also suggested putting Blue Curacao in an Electric Iced Tea instead of tequila. :eek: Stranger ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-shirley-temple-a-gateway-drug/332101/31 "2005-11-21T22:11:19Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > Just so you know, when you order ginger ale or something with ginger ale in a bar, you’re getting a glass of 7-Up or Sprite with a splash of cola (for color…doesn’t do anything to the taste). Has been addressed but since you addressed it to me… :dubious: As you noted, ginger ale and (bastard liquids, accursed of the Gods) Sprite and 7 up taste very different…well that’s pretty much why I know my Shirley Temples were ginger authentic. Obviously you’re hanging around in the wrong places…sad, lonely places where you ask for a martini and they give you a glass half full of vermouth and half full of vodka… Flee, Stranger, flee!!! ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-shirley-temple-a-gateway-drug/332101/32 "2005-11-21T22:22:35Z")
Wrote that before I saw your last post. Although my final comment stands. And I’ve tended a few bars and I can’t recall ginger ale on the speed gun, true. But then it doesn’t get asked for much. When it does there’s a bottle in the fridge. I don’t remember (in serving or consuming) where one was passed off for the other. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-shirley-temple-a-gateway-drug/332101/33 "2005-11-21T22:39:28Z")
> [@betenoir](#): > > Flee, Stranger, flee!!! Eeh. I drink my liquor straight and uncontaminated by syrups and carbonation. Give me a Black Bush, neat, any day over your foofy sugared drinks. 😛 Stranger ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-shirley-temple-a-gateway-drug/332101/34 "2005-11-21T22:48:05Z")
I talked to a bartender friend and he said “yeah, thats what they told us to do in bartending school and what happened in the bars I’ve worked in. I never knew it was standard though, I always assumed the bars I worked in just sucked. I guess there is only so much room on the soda gun.” FWIW, they teach you all kinds of dirty tricks in bartending school- how to fool people into thinking you are giving them extra liquor, how to convince them to try throwing quarters in your tip jar, etc. ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-shirley-temple-a-gateway-drug/332101/35 "2005-11-21T23:23:07Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > Eeh. I drink my liquor straight and uncontaminated by syrups and carbonation. Give me a Black Bush, neat, any day over your foofy sugared drinks. 😛 > > Stranger Good man. Nonetheless I’m concerned about the dives you choose to drink in (and I differential the good dives from the bad dives.) ---
**Author:** ![picker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/picker/32/13969_2.png) [@picker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picker)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-shirley-temple-a-gateway-drug/332101/36 "2005-11-21T23:36:28Z")
Well, I’ve tended and managed bars of all kinds - college bars, country clubs, 100 year old neighborhood pubs, martini bars and more, and I’ve never **not** had Ginger on the gun. Maybe it’s a Left Coast thing? I’ve only worked in the bar business on the East Coast. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-shirley-temple-a-gateway-drug/332101/37 "2005-11-22T00:03:15Z")
> [@betenoir](#): > > Nonetheless I’m concerned about the dives you choose to drink in (and I differential the good dives from the bad dives.) Well, it’s El-Ay, you know; the “good dives” have $10 neat pours and the bad ones have transvestite midgets dancing on the bar. I tend to stick to the Los Feliz/Silver Lake area which has institutions of imbibement that actually resemble what people in other parts of the country would consider a bar. Los Angeles is not, frankly, a good bar town. It is, in fact, the kind of town where a decent, self-respecting “Irish Pub” turns into a techno-dance club as the clock chimes nine. As my former Kain-tecky coworker Chuck used to say, “Tha jest ain’t raaaht!” I’ve tended in Wisconsin and Missouri, and we never had ginger on the speedgun. A few places I’ve seen keep ginger ale in bottles, but when you’re slammed with a Saturday night crowd of live meat and butchers you don’t want to go banging around in the cooler for ginger ale. I’m not saying that everybody does it, but if you keep your eyes peeled I think you’ll find that a lot of places–not just bad dives–do the Sprite’n’Coke thing. Just my experience. And I’ve not worked on the normal side of the country, so **picker** may have a point, there. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-shirley-temple-a-gateway-drug/332101/38 "2005-11-22T00:50:35Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > Give me a Black Bush, neat, any day… Stranger What’s the matter with blondes? 😃 d&r ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-shirley-temple-a-gateway-drug/332101/39 "2005-11-22T01:05:38Z")
In answer to the OP, I also was permitted small sips of my father’s whiskey. Whiskey, blah! Chivas Regal or Johnny Walker Black Label may be expensive and something my father loves but I can’t stand the stuff. When people started drinking alcohol like beer I kept thinking 😕 Who wants to drink piss water?! Best to be exposed to it early and responsibly. What you don’t know sure as hell can hurt you. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-shirley-temple-a-gateway-drug/332101/40 "2005-11-22T01:16:32Z")
The way my mother explained it to me, the traditional way of making a Shirley Temple put less alcohol into the drink than Sunday Communion. Just a drop, maybe two. Communion is a sip or a wafer dipped in the wine. (There are churces who use wine exclusively, and have communion every Sunday.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-shirley-temple-a-gateway-drug/332101.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-shirley-temple-a-gateway-drug/332101.md?page=3)