# Is a small octopus less intelligent than a large one? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 3, 2010, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-small-octopus-less-intelligent-than-a-large-one/562778 "2010-12-03T07:42:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-small-octopus-less-intelligent-than-a-large-one/562778/21 "2010-12-11T10:36:50Z")
Sorry to be late to the party, but when this thread was first posted I _knew_ had recently seen something very interesting online somewhere about octopus intelligence, but I just could not remember where. I just now stumbled across it again: [Thinking like an octopus](http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2010/10/thinking-like-an-octopus/) About half of an octopus’ nervous system is is in its tentacles, so it is almost as though it has 9 separate brains. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-small-octopus-less-intelligent-than-a-large-one/562778/22 "2010-12-11T10:45:53Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > My objection is simply that many people who would like to own these highly intelligent creatures will not provide them with the intellectual stimulation that they need in order to be well adjusted. We don’t keep kids ages 3-6 in cages because we know they won’t thrive that way, but too many animals about that smart end up in situations were they languish from lack of challenge/stimulation. I don’t think that it’s impossible to keep them as pets and meet their needs, just that far too often they aren’t met by people who aren’t expert in caring for them. That sounds entirely reasonable and balanced (and actually, I don’t disagree after all) - thanks for sharing it. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-small-octopus-less-intelligent-than-a-large-one/562778/23 "2010-12-11T12:40:22Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > [Cool video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCAIedFgdY0) of a large octopus squeezing itself through holes and tubes of various sizes, including one the size of a quarter. [off-topic] Why is the narrator in that video talking like he’s addressing a room filled with special needs children? [/off-topic] ---
**Author:** ![BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2010, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-small-octopus-less-intelligent-than-a-large-one/562778/24 "2010-12-12T10:46:11Z")
Doesn’t have to be special needs. That level of discourse sounded fine for younger kids, maybe 6 or so years old. I assume Natl Geographic occasionally produces shows for kids. ---
**Author:** ![Uncertain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Uncertain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncertain)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2010, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-small-octopus-less-intelligent-than-a-large-one/562778/25 "2010-12-12T23:58:00Z")
> [@alterego](#): > > Certainly brain size correlates with intelligence but a large brain is not necessary for intelligence. Neanderthals had larger brains than we do. Are you assuming that Neanderthals were not more intelligent than we are? Is there a good reason to believe this? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2010, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-small-octopus-less-intelligent-than-a-large-one/562778/26 "2010-12-13T03:17:24Z")
> [@wevets](#): > > I’ve heard this same story from the Cabrillo Marine Aquarium in San Pedro and the Sea-Life Center in Berlin. I don’t doubt that it or something like it has happened somewhere, but I am amazed at how the story gets around and is attributed to different facilities. 🙂 A similar, albeit different story, [with an actual cite](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/3328480/Otto-the-octopus-wrecks-havoc.html) ! Otto the octopus learned how to disable electric lights that bothered him by shorting the power to the whole aquarium. OK, so the critter’s actual thinking process probably didn’t involve anything more complex than “I wish that light would piss off so I’ll use a skill of mine that makes stuff piss off on that light”, but still. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2010, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-small-octopus-less-intelligent-than-a-large-one/562778/27 "2010-12-13T05:18:05Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > A similar, albeit different story, [with an actual cite](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/3328480/Otto-the-octopus-wrecks-havoc.html) ! Otto the octopus learned how to disable electric lights that bothered him by shorting the power to the whole aquarium. > > OK, so the critter’s actual thinking process probably didn’t involve anything more complex than “I wish that light would piss off so I’ll use a skill of mine that makes stuff piss off on that light”, but still. Lol, from that same article: > [@](#): > > But Otto is constantly craving for attention and always comes up with new stunts so we have realised we will have to keep more careful eye on him - and also perhaps give him a few more toys to play with. > > “Once we saw him juggling the hermit crabs in his tank, another time he threw stones against the glass damaging it. And from time to time he completely re-arranges his tank to make it suit his own taste better - much to the distress of his fellow tank inhabitants.” 😃 They really need to take a video of that. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-small-octopus-less-intelligent-than-a-large-one/562778/28 "2010-12-13T17:30:23Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > Despite the obvious intelligence of octopuses, they’re not generally considered as intelligent as a dog or cat. They’re mostly remarkable because many other mollusks have no brain at all. Although it is difficult to compare the intelligence of different species, much less phyla, I would contend that most species of octopuses, as well as many squid and cuttlefish species, are substantially more capable of mechanical problem-solving skills than any mammal except for the apes and ursines, certainly far more than canids and felids. As **njtt** notes, the nervous system of the octopus is far more distributed than in vertebrates, so many of the control and feedback functions that are located in discrete cortices in mammals don’t exist in the cephalopod brain structure, and therefore a direct comparison between brain/body mass ratios between vertebrates and octopuses is not a very useful metric for intelligence. By the way, the “head” of an octopus is actually mostly its organ sac; the actual brain is located somewhat between and below the eyes and is about the size of a walnut in the largest species. Octopus do lack a high degree of social intelligence as they are mostly solitary creatures, though they can communicate with each other in at least a rudimentary fashion via flashing chromatosphores and body movement. Octopuses are oviparous, and while the female does often live through the hatching of the offspring in most species, she doesn’t consume food during their development and dies soon after, contributing nothing to the rearing of offspring, so unlike the more intelligent species of mammals and aves there is no extend period of training and grooming. > [@Snake\_Plissken](#): > > Mine always grabbed my hands when I was doing water changes. It used to freak me out because I thought he was going to bite me. He never did, and it seemed like he looked forward to our arm wrestling. I did have a Picasso Trigger that bit me pretty bad once. Took a chunk out. Indeed. On a couple of occasions while diving I’ve “made friends” with curious octopuses who will then reach out and grab my glove or forearm with their tentacles, often climbing up my arm. While the beak is a vicious-looking thing that can shear through soft tissue like a knife through butter, the octopus rarely if ever uses the beak in a defensive fashion, as damage to it will render it incapable of eating and therefore death. Octopuses are generally not aggressive with divers (unlike some species squid, which will attack divers in swarm), but in their curiosity they may do things that are alarming, like pulling off a mask, pulling at the regulator, or trying to climb inside the BCD or a catch bag to explore. I gentle burst of air from the regulator mouthpiece is usually enough to spook them back; trying to unwind one from your arm, on the other hand, often makes them clutch harder, which is again alarming but general harmless. As for the relative intelligence of octopus species I don’t know of any definitive work on the topic. Most of what I’ve read is focuses on intelligence of just a few species like the Common Octopus (_Octopus vulgaris_ and the Giant North Pacific Octopus (_Enteroctopus dofleini_). There use to be octopus “wrestling” competitions in which divers would collect and bring these beasts to the surface, so they’re clearly not that hazardous. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2010, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-small-octopus-less-intelligent-than-a-large-one/562778/29 "2010-12-13T20:45:16Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Indeed. On a couple of occasions while diving I’ve “made friends” with curious octopuses who will then reach out and grab my glove or forearm with their tentacles, often climbing up my arm. While the beak is a vicious-looking thing that can shear through soft tissue like a knife through butter, the octopus rarely if ever uses the beak in a defensive fashion, as damage to it will render it incapable of eating and therefore death. Octopuses are generally not aggressive with divers (unlike some species squid, which will attack divers in swarm), but in their curiosity they may do things that are alarming, like pulling off a mask, pulling at the regulator, or trying to climb inside the BCD or a catch bag to explore. I gentle burst of air from the regulator mouthpiece is usually enough to spook them back; trying to unwind one from your arm, on the other hand, often makes them clutch harder, which is again alarming but general harmless. > Stranger You have a rather nightmarish definition of “harmless”… ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-small-octopus-less-intelligent-than-a-large-one/562778/30 "2010-12-13T20:54:35Z")
I totally want to see Otto the Octopus juggling hermit crabs. Pretty please, Santa? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2010, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-small-octopus-less-intelligent-than-a-large-one/562778/31 "2010-12-13T20:57:04Z")
> [@Reply](#): > > You have a rather nightmarish definition of “harmless”… Octopuses are curious animals. If you let them satisfy their curiosity they won’t do any real harm. (A trained diver should be able to deal with a dislodged mask or regulator without panic; if you can’t or are not equipped with a spare second stage or mask, you shouldn’t be diving.) Where divers get into trouble with octopus is when they try to start fighting the creature, which instinctively responds by either trying to cling harder or release ink. Stranger [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-small-octopus-less-intelligent-than-a-large-one/562778.md?page=1)