# Is a store employee allowed to "steal" my unsigned credit card? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 17, 2003, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-store-employee-allowed-to-steal-my-unsigned-credit-card/202094 "2003-09-17T05:32:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Extraneous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/0ea827/32.png) [@Extraneous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Extraneous)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2003, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-store-employee-allowed-to-steal-my-unsigned-credit-card/202094/41 "2003-09-21T01:43:09Z")
If you are 18+, you can get a credit card, at least in the US - they are called “secured cards”, and are offered by several companies targeting the “sub-prime” credit markets (the folks the banks won’t touch, for whatever reason). The deal is simple - send them a couple of hundred dollars (plus a processing fee, and who-knows-what-else pure up-front profit) and they will issue a Visa and/or M/C with a credit limit of your deposit. 2 biggies in this market are Providian and Capital One. both have made the news with various lawsuits over their fee structures, but the cards still work. And somebody in Toronto should issue “check cards” - but they may not admit that to someone to whom they would prefer not to issue such an instrument. Pick up their brochures re. checking accounts - see what options they offer. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2003, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-store-employee-allowed-to-steal-my-unsigned-credit-card/202094/42 "2003-09-21T02:12:27Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by amarone_ > **Usually? I have never incurred a fee for using debit.** I have, from a certain nationwide bank whose logo is a stagecoach. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sunspace \* > **Okay, that makes more sense: the debits are going through the credit-card system rather than a separate debit-card system. And are these the cards referred to as ‘check cards’?** Yes, those are check cards. It seems [TD Canada Trust](http://www.tdcanadatrust.com/usbanking/faq.jsp) will let you set up a U.S. account with a check card, even though their Canadian accounts don’t have check cards. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2003, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-store-employee-allowed-to-steal-my-unsigned-credit-card/202094/43 "2003-09-21T02:16:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by captaindoesnotlikeyou \* > **I work at a record store, and I very rarely check the signature…because I ALWAYS check an I.D.** Don’t let a Visa or Mastercard rep catch you doing this, because it’s not allowed by the merchant agreement. The merchant is prohibited from asking for ID with credit card transactions, and must check the signature. Failure to do so will result in a chargeback to your store, if they determine you have failed to follow proper procedure… ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2003, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-store-employee-allowed-to-steal-my-unsigned-credit-card/202094/44 "2003-09-21T02:18:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tamex \* > \*\*And then they usually slap you with some stupid fee, to boot. Easier to just push the “credit” button instead. \*\* I’ve never been charged a fee for using my debit card for purchase. Only for cash withdrawals from ATMs not owned by my bank. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2003, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-store-employee-allowed-to-steal-my-unsigned-credit-card/202094/45 "2003-09-21T02:28:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mallory \* > \*\*A couple of times recently, I’ve been asked for ID when using my (signed) Visa card. I thought that merchants weren’t supposed to do that, but I can’t find anything about it on the Visa site. Does anyone have any info about this? \*\* [Here](http://www.acs-cvp.com/downloads/App.pdf) (Warning: PDF) is a typical merchant agreement/application for Visa/MC, if you feel like wading through it. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody\_s\_Fool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ba8739/32.png) [@Nobody\_s\_Fool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody_s_Fool)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2003, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-store-employee-allowed-to-steal-my-unsigned-credit-card/202094/46 "2003-09-21T02:43:29Z")
I work for a National Retail Chain that will remain nameless as a cashier. We can ask to compare the signatures on the card with the receipt even if the card is swiped through the debit machine on the customer’s side of the counter. The only trouble is that sometimes the customers get offended by it, even if you are following procedure. So, yes, sometimes it is easier not to check. One lady screamed at me for not checking her ID for a $17.50 purchase. Give me a break. No one is going to steal a credit card to buy cereal and milk. 🙂 If the purchase if very large I ask to see their card and driver’s license and most do not mind. So go figure. Your damned if you do and damned if you don’t. 😃 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2003, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-store-employee-allowed-to-steal-my-unsigned-credit-card/202094/47 "2003-09-21T03:00:15Z")
MartinL is misled. The back of my Visa: “This card is issued by and is the property of Bank X and must be returned to Bank X on request.” ---
**Author:** ![capnfutile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e0b2c6/32.png) [@capnfutile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capnfutile)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2003, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-store-employee-allowed-to-steal-my-unsigned-credit-card/202094/48 "2003-09-21T10:30:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Q.E.D. \* > \*\*Don’t let a Visa or Mastercard rep catch you doing this, because it’s not allowed by the merchant agreement. The merchant is prohibited from asking for ID with credit card transactions, and must check the signature. Failure to do so will result in a chargeback to your store, if they determine you have failed to follow proper procedure… \*\* QED - I was under the impression that I could ask for ID if I had questions about the signature ie - it looks like it could be right, but I’d like something to verify it. I’ve done it a handful of times when the customer is making a large purchase and the signature on their CC is too faded to read. For all but known customers, I always always always check the sig - it’s the only way you can guarantee payment. If a charge is disputed, and the sig on the docket doesn’t match the one on the cardholder agreement, the bank takes the money back from the retailer rather quickly. We lose heaps more by shoplifters than by CC fraud. Capn ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2003, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-store-employee-allowed-to-steal-my-unsigned-credit-card/202094/49 "2003-09-21T12:17:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by capnfutile \* > \*\*QED - I was under the impression that I could ask for ID if I had questions about the signature ie - it looks like it could be right, but I’d like something to verify it. \*\* According to the merchant agreement linked to by **QED** , you cannot check ID unless the authorizer asks you to do so. Best Buy always asks for ID - maybe it has negotiated a different merchant agreement. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2003, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-store-employee-allowed-to-steal-my-unsigned-credit-card/202094/50 "2003-09-21T12:47:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by capnfutile \* > **QED - I was under the impression that I could ask for ID if I had questions about the signature ie - it looks like it could be right, but I’d like something to verify it.** If the signature is missing or mismatched, you are allowed to request ID. If the customer refuses to provide ID in this case, you are to phone the appropriate CC authorization number and get voice authorization. If you suspect fraud, tell them it’s a code 10, and they’ll take extra steps to verify the cardholder. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-store-employee-allowed-to-steal-my-unsigned-credit-card/202094/51 "2003-09-22T23:14:15Z")
I often get asked for ID when I use my credit card - especially at drive through restaurants where they don’t ask me to sign. As long as we’re on the subject, how do they get away with swiping my card and handing me a receipt, without getting a signature? ---
**Author:** ![Extraneous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/0ea827/32.png) [@Extraneous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Extraneous)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-store-employee-allowed-to-steal-my-unsigned-credit-card/202094/52 "2003-09-23T01:03:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr2001 \* > \*\*As long as we’re on the subject, how do they get away with swiping my card and handing me a receipt, without getting a signature? \*\* All that is required is your agreement to pay. A signature on a slip of paper is very good evidence, but, just as you don’t sign a charge slip when ordering by phone or web, etc., a signature is not required. As a practical matter, the merchant probably should get a signature whenever possible, but the fact that you handed the plastic to the clerk is evidence of a promise to pay (or, if you do not intend to pay, evidence of intent to defraud (if the plastic is fake) or breach a contract (if the plastic is real)). ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-store-employee-allowed-to-steal-my-unsigned-credit-card/202094/53 "2003-09-23T01:41:27Z")
> [@](#): > > It seems TD Canada Trust will let you set up a U.S. account with a check card, even though their Canadian accounts don’t have check cards. . That’s very interesting. I already have an account with them… I’ll have to check it out. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-store-employee-allowed-to-steal-my-unsigned-credit-card/202094.md?page=2)