# Is a Trans-Amazonian Railroad Feasible? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 24, 2015, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-trans-amazonian-railroad-feasible/720735 "2015-05-24T18:38:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-trans-amazonian-railroad-feasible/720735/1 "2015-05-24T18:38:29Z")
China planning to build a trans-Amazon railroad:://www.ibtimes.com/china-brazil-peru-eye-transcontinental-railway-megaproject-1930003 The main purpose would be to transport grain, iron ore, and other raw materials to a pacific port, for shipment to China. I have no doubt that this could be done, but given the harsh nature of the terrain (torrential rains and floods) m, plus the fact that there are almost no human habitation along the route, mean that maintaining the line would be hugely expensive. Plus, Brazil wants to be a manufacturing power-they would rather export stell than iron ore. My question is: if the Chinese build and finance this rail line, would it actually provide any real benefit to Brazil and Peru? Yes, people who mine the ore and f grow the grain would benefit…but I believe that the Chinese would build with imported labor and materials.,so there would be very little benefit to the local labor force. Plus, Brazil spent a fortune on the Trans-Amazon Highway. This road costs a fortune to maintan, and actually hasn’t resulted in any big development of the region-economists believe that has actually done more harm than good (importing non-native diseases, impounding water resulting in malarial swamps, etc. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-trans-amazonian-railroad-feasible/720735/2 "2015-05-24T18:41:47Z")
Geez, why not just use the river? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-trans-amazonian-railroad-feasible/720735/3 "2015-05-24T18:57:27Z")
The river only gets you as far as the Andes. And it has the minor problem of trying to sail a boat uphill. You’d be better off using Amazon dot com. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-trans-amazonian-railroad-feasible/720735/4 "2015-05-24T19:31:50Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > the minor problem of trying to sail a boat uphill. Well, it [might](https://youtu.be/iP-H16OYOqE?t=147) work. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-trans-amazonian-railroad-feasible/720735/5 "2015-05-24T19:41:26Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > The river only gets you as far as the Andes. Which is 3/4 of the total distance. > [@](#): > > And it has the minor problem of trying to sail a boat uphill. After leaving the Andes, the elevational gradient of the Amazon is very low. The pitch of the Amazon from river mouth to mountains is incredibly [small.](http://www.projectamazonas.org/amazon-facts) > [@](#): > > Iquitos, Peru is some 3,600 km (2,250 miles) from the Atlantic, yet the river-level at low-water season is only about 100 m (a bit more than 300’) above sea-level, and the slope is around 2 cm (less than one inch) vertical change per kilometer. It boggles the mind, though, to suggest that such a rail route, through or over the mountains, would be cheaper than shipping through the Panama Canal, the proposed canal in [Nicaragua,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaragua_Canal') or through the Strait of Magellan. The rail route might benefit limited parts of Brazil, but most other parts of South America (Argentina, Chile, Ecuador) would benefit much less or not at all. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-trans-amazonian-railroad-feasible/720735/6 "2015-05-24T20:08:28Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > Well, it [might](https://youtu.be/iP-H16OYOqE?t=147) work. Arrgh, not the voyeuristic monkey. Possibly cheaper than a railroad and easier to maintain would be a canal through the mountains along with a bit of [Scottish ingenuity](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n61KUGDWz2A). ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-trans-amazonian-railroad-feasible/720735/7 "2015-05-24T20:41:24Z")
It sounds like a boondoggle project to me. Once you het the Andes, you need hundreds of miles of switchbacks, so the locomotives can handle the grade. plus, what goes back the other way? Assuming Chinese manufactured products, Brazil doesn’t want them-they would undercut Brazilian manufacturers, and Manaus itself is a “freetrade” zone-the last thing Brazil wants is closed factories in Manaus. I think the line will be studied for a few years, then quietly dropped. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-trans-amazonian-railroad-feasible/720735/8 "2015-05-24T21:31:51Z")
I would expect a primary purpose would be shipping raw materials. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-trans-amazonian-railroad-feasible/720735/9 "2015-05-24T21:32:37Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > It sounds like a boondoggle project to me. Once you het the Andes, you need hundreds of miles of switchbacks, so the locomotives can handle the grade. plus, what goes back the other way? I Am Not A Transportation Construction Engineer, but it occurs to me that [Tunnel Boring Machines](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunnel_boring_machine) might eliminate miles of switchbacks. The “other way”? Sell tickets. Wheeeeeee!!! ---
**Author:** ![Daylate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Daylate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylate)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-trans-amazonian-railroad-feasible/720735/10 "2015-05-25T02:41:49Z")
> [@](#): > > I Am Not A Transportation Construction Engineer, but it occurs to me that Tunnel Boring Machines might eliminate miles of switchbacks. I’m sure that the Washington DOT would gladly sell Bertha to you. This big ole machine, which (supposedly) digs a tunnel 57 feet in diameter, has managed to go just over 1,000 feet in the year or so it has been working (or almost working), and now has been brought to the surface for basically rebuilding. And the damage has now been found to be so bad that it may not be fixed until December. They’ll probably make China a real good deal on that one. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-trans-amazonian-railroad-feasible/720735/11 "2015-05-25T03:10:07Z")
> [@Daylate](#): > > They’ll probably make China a real good deal on that one. You mean point it down and turn it on? ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-trans-amazonian-railroad-feasible/720735/12 "2015-05-25T04:33:53Z")
I can only imagine what this would due to the rainforest. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-trans-amazonian-railroad-feasible/720735/13 "2015-05-25T10:37:44Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Arrgh, not the voyeuristic monkey. > > Possibly cheaper than a railroad and easier to maintain would be a canal through the mountains along with a bit of [Scottish ingenuity](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n61KUGDWz2A). In Scotland, but an English design… \*“a 20-strong team of architects and engineers led by Tony Kettle and the British Waterways Board - Tony Kettle is a British architect” \* _“The wheel was fully constructed and assembled at the Butterley Engineering plant in Ripley, Derbyshire.”_ ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-trans-amazonian-railroad-feasible/720735/14 "2015-05-25T11:34:22Z")
FWIW, China doesn’t use as much imported labor as they used to. When they first started doing projects like this overseas, they used more Chinese labor. But they’ve shifted approaches-- and the countries they work in are able to negotiate on this as well. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-trans-amazonian-railroad-feasible/720735/15 "2015-05-25T11:44:51Z")
It’s certainly technically possible. China already has the Lhasa railway which goes over a 5000 meter high pass. > **[Qinghai–Tibet railway](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qinghai%E2%80%93Tibet_Railway)** > > The Qinghai–Tibet railway or Qingzang railway (Standard Tibetan: མཚོ་བོད་ལྕགས་ལམ།, mtsho bod lcags lam; simplified Chinese: 青藏铁路; traditional Chinese: 青藏鐵路; pinyin: Qīngzàng Tiělù), is a high-elevation railway that connects Xining, Qinghai Province, to Lhasa, Tibet Autonomous Region of China. > The length of the railway is 1,956 km (1,215 mi). Construction of the 815 km (506 mi) section between Xining and Golmud was completed by 1984. The 1,142 km (710 mi) section between Golmud and Lhasa was in... It really doesn’t matter to China if projects like this ever are profitable. It’s strategic. Ensuring multiple paths for raw materials which are not under control of potential competitors and also building relationships with other countries who they see as potential partners. Brazil is a key member of BRICS, so it would basically be just to forge a closer relationship with them. ---
**Author:** ![Daylate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Daylate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylate)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-trans-amazonian-railroad-feasible/720735/16 "2015-05-25T16:24:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Quote: > Originally Posted by Daylate View Post > They’ll probably make China a real good deal on that one. > You mean point it down and turn it on? > Reply With Quote The only problem is that Bertha’s average speed of 1,000 feet/year, it would take over 42,000 years for it to get there. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-trans-amazonian-railroad-feasible/720735/17 "2015-05-25T17:12:05Z")
China thinks long-term. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-trans-amazonian-railroad-feasible/720735/18 "2015-05-26T16:05:29Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > China thinks long-term. True, but this would seem to be against Brazil’s economic interests, as others have said. Brazil wants to be a manufacturing powerhouse; helping China continue to be a manufacturing powerhouse would be counterproductive. Also, this plan sure as hell would be against any environmental interests, altho I’m sure the Chinese planners aren’t worrying about that much. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-trans-amazonian-railroad-feasible/720735/19 "2015-05-26T16:30:28Z")
Further thoughts: I’m pretty sure that a tunnel under the Andes would be impossible. A tunnel thru any one particular mountain? Sure. But not the whole range. Altho given who we’re talking about (China), I’m sure that they’d be perfectly willing to create underground cities to serve as waypoints, populated by “molemen” who would be expected to spend their entire lives down there. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-trans-amazonian-railroad-feasible/720735/20 "2015-05-26T17:33:07Z")
I’m sure having infrastructure never hurts. If China wants to build a railroad, it would probably help Brazil and Peru. As for tunnels - basically, going through mountain ranges involves a lot od switchbacks and winding paths following mountain and valley curves. Assorted tunnels can straighten that path, and maybe allow the rail to avoid some climbs by going under a pass rather than all the way up and over. I doubt anyone seriously thinks tunnels longer than 10 or 20 miles are worthwhile. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-trans-amazonian-railroad-feasible/720735.md?page=2)