# Is actually doing research a lost art now? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 29, 2013, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-actually-doing-research-a-lost-art-now/675058 "2013-11-29T08:54:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-actually-doing-research-a-lost-art-now/675058/1 "2013-11-29T08:54:08Z")
Damn stupid woman. Just took a boilerplate template and made what she thought were necessary changes. Did you not read the client’s instructions? Did you not look up applicable statutes and rules, regulations etc and then act? One of the first things they teach your at Law School, legal research. The copy and paste function does not eliminate the need for that. You are a damn lawyer, not a glorified clerk! The transaction is shot, my weekend is shot and you really should be shot. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-actually-doing-research-a-lost-art-now/675058/2 "2013-11-29T08:55:27Z")
**deep breath** Ok, I feel better. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-actually-doing-research-a-lost-art-now/675058/3 "2013-11-29T19:00:01Z")
Yes, I can state categorically that actually doing research is a lost art. I know this because it’s obviously true, though I didn’t research it. Somebody had to be the first. ---
**Author:** ![spotthegerbil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@spotthegerbil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spotthegerbil)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-actually-doing-research-a-lost-art-now/675058/4 "2013-11-29T19:15:41Z")
some students I know think that all you need to do to perform research is to [click here…](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research) They seem surprised when you tell them that you may have to look a little further than Wikipedia. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-actually-doing-research-a-lost-art-now/675058/5 "2013-11-29T20:09:54Z")
In fact no encyclopaedia should be expected to be the end of the research, if my student only uses an encyclopedia (even the freaking Britannica) and stops there, he does not get a good grade. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2013, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-actually-doing-research-a-lost-art-now/675058/6 "2013-11-30T02:46:40Z")
Yeah, just copy a template from the Net and submit it and _mutatis mutandis!_ you’re done! ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2013, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-actually-doing-research-a-lost-art-now/675058/7 "2013-11-30T03:28:07Z")
“Research”? That’s like, another word for Google, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2013, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-actually-doing-research-a-lost-art-now/675058/8 "2013-11-30T04:42:32Z")
If you’re drafting a contract and you don’t already know what the potential pitfalls are and what sorts of things you need to protect your client against, no amount of research short of relearning the law of contracts, commercial law and anything else that applies is going to help you. Presumably that’s what they taught you in law school in the first place and that’s why you’re the lawyer and not the paralegal or secretary. It would help to know what sort of document was involved. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2013, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-actually-doing-research-a-lost-art-now/675058/9 "2013-11-30T05:18:54Z")
Bespoke Articles of Association. She just took the clients instructions and added them to the Model Articles. A very very bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2013, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-actually-doing-research-a-lost-art-now/675058/10 "2013-11-30T05:32:35Z")
I guess that’s what we would call articles of incorporation. I never did any corp. law but I was always under the impression that a lot of this was handled in the company bylaws. Maybe that’s the same thing. I have no idea. Anyway, for other similarly ignorant dopers, from [wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_of_association#Content), articles of association tend to contain: > [@](#): > > The following is largely based on British Company Law, references which are made at the end of this Article. > The Articles can cover a medley of topics, not all of which is required in a country’s law. Although all terms are not discussed, they may cover: > > [ul] > [li]the issuing of [shares](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shares) (also called [stock](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock)), different voting rights attached to different classes of shares[/li][li]valuation of intellectual rights, say, the valuations of the IPR of one partner and, in a similar way as how we value real estate of another partner[/li][/ul] > > [ul] > [li]the appointments of directors - which shows whether a shareholder dominates or shares equality with all contributors[/li][li]directors meetings - the quorum and percentage of vote[/li][li]management decisions - whether the board manages or a founder[/li][li]transferability of shares - assignment rights of the founders or other members of the company do[/li][li]special voting rights of a Chairman, and his/her mode of election[/li][li]the [dividend policy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dividend_policy) - a percentage of profits to be declared when there is profit or otherwise[/li][li]winding up - the conditions, notice to members[/li][li]confidentiality of know-how and the founders’ agreement and penalties for disclosure[/li][li]first right of refusal - purchase rights and counter-bid by a founder[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2013, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-actually-doing-research-a-lost-art-now/675058/11 "2013-11-30T05:49:44Z")
They do not teach the drafting of legal documents in law school. That is taught by the lazy assed mouth-breathers who hire the newly-minted, wet behind the ears law puppies. It is not acceptable to yell at the law puppies for crapping on the floor. You must show them how to do it and then supervise them. If all you did was hand the puppy the assignment and waited until the last minute to look, you have no one but yourself to blame. But you knew that, didn’t you? There is a reason your time is billed at $400 an hour and the puppy’s time is billed at $100. ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2013, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-actually-doing-research-a-lost-art-now/675058/12 "2013-11-30T06:18:45Z")
Actually in NJ they have something that used to be called a skills and methods course that you had to complete before you could get your license. I don’t what it’s called now and it’s a lot more extensive but it includes things like drafting a complaint and answer and handling other standard court pleading and documents. edit: Huh, there also seems to be [mandatory continuing legal education](http://camdencountycle.learningcenter.com/resources/pdf/Camden.pdf). ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2013, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-actually-doing-research-a-lost-art-now/675058/13 "2013-11-30T06:28:35Z")
A stupid rant from a stupid poster, and it’s ridiculously sexist to boot. “Stupid woman!” Come on. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2013, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-actually-doing-research-a-lost-art-now/675058/14 "2013-11-30T06:43:16Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > They do not teach the drafting of legal documents in law school. That is taught by the lazy assed mouth-breathers who hire the newly-minted, wet behind the ears law puppies. It is not acceptable to yell at the law puppies for crapping on the floor. You must show them how to do it and then supervise them. If all you did was hand the puppy the assignment and waited until the last minute to look, you have no one but yourself to blame. But you knew that, didn’t you? > > There is a reason your time is billed at $400 an hour and the puppy’s time is billed at $100. Errrrr… I see I did not make this clear in the OP, she is the senior counsel. Which is why I am in the office and she is off. Although in this case we are more co-counsels than senior/junior. In this case, the issue was not drafting, but the fact that several bits things the clients want to do would ordinarily be unlawful unless the clauses grant powers wrt to the Statutes and the newest regulations. drewtwo99: She is a woman and she is stupid. Its not “sexist” its a “fact”. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2013, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-actually-doing-research-a-lost-art-now/675058/15 "2013-11-30T09:54:24Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > A stupid rant Why? Can you explain? > [@drewtwo99](#): > > from a stupid poster Why? Can you explain? > [@drewtwo99](#): > > ridiculously sexist Why? Can you explain? ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2013, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-actually-doing-research-a-lost-art-now/675058/16 "2013-11-30T14:03:42Z")
… ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2013, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-actually-doing-research-a-lost-art-now/675058/17 "2013-11-30T14:09:19Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Errrrr… I see I did not make this clear in the OP, she is the senior counsel. Which is why I am in the office and she is off. Although in this case we are more co-counsels than senior/junior. In this case, the issue was not drafting, but the fact that several bits things the clients want to do would ordinarily be unlawful unless the clauses grant powers wrt to the Statutes and the newest regulations. > > drewtwo99: She is a woman and she is stupid. Its not “sexist” its a “fact”. Ah. I had the impression that you were delegating work and had failed to supervise her, but if these are the sorts of people you are working FOR, you need to find another job. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2013, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-actually-doing-research-a-lost-art-now/675058/18 "2013-11-30T14:54:47Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > A stupid rant from a stupid poster, and it’s ridiculously sexist to boot. “Stupid woman!” Come on. Because there are no stupid women? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2013, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-actually-doing-research-a-lost-art-now/675058/19 "2013-11-30T17:02:55Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Errrrr… I see I did not make this clear in the OP, she is the senior counsel. Which is why I am in the office and she is off. Although in this case we are more co-counsels than senior/junior. In this case, the issue was not drafting, but the fact that several bits things the clients want to do would ordinarily be unlawful unless the clauses grant powers wrt to the Statutes and the newest regulations. > > drewtwo99: She is a woman and she is stupid. Its not “sexist” its a “fact”. Ahhh. In which case every item of your rant is justified. However, she gets to apply for a writ of “shit rolls downhill” and you should have just done the whole thing and let her bill the hours for it. You are truly cursed with a vexingly stupid lawyer for a boss and it is undoubtedly punishment for sins in a past life. Yes, she is a woman, and she is stupid, and she is lazy. Note to feminists watching that stupid, woman, lazy and lawyer are not co-extensive. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-actually-doing-research-a-lost-art-now/675058/20 "2013-11-30T17:16:11Z")
> [@spotthegerbil](#): > > some students I know think that all you need to do to perform research is to [click here…](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research) > > They seem surprised when you tell them that you may have to look a little further than Wikipedia. :rolleyes: It is a very good place to **start,** though.