# Is Adultery Wrong **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 27, 2010, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-adultery-wrong/558470 "2010-10-27T01:07:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-adultery-wrong/558470/61 "2010-10-27T17:28:03Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Even if Spouse A thereby exposes Spouse B to STD’s (assuming sex ever resumes between them)? or becomes pregnant by (or impregnates) the extramarital lover? > > As for whether “spouse B is acting somewhat immoral by putting unrealistic limits on the marriage,” that depends on **why** they’re doing so. What if Spouse A has decided to give up bathing and other personal hygiene? What if Spouse A is such an abusive asshole that Spouse B feels no desire for him/her? What if Spouse B is constantly exhausted and Spouse A won’t do anything to help? > > If Spouse B is denying intimacy to Spouse A, there’s **something** wrong in the marriage… but you know what they say about two wrongs not making a right. In the case I propose, all other aspects of the marriage are great. There is no abuse or lack of hygene or anything like that. Let’s say Spouse B refuses inimacy because it is simply not enjoyable. I would agree, there IS something wrong with the marriage. That’s why I have no problem with Spouse A’s infidelity. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-adultery-wrong/558470/62 "2010-10-27T17:38:27Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > In the case I propose, all other aspects of the marriage are great. There is no abuse or lack of hygene or anything like that. Let’s say Spouse B refuses inimacy because it is simply not enjoyable. I would agree, there IS something wrong with the marriage. That’s why I have no problem with Spouse A’s infidelity. Sorry, but that is a huge “something”. Why not either get the spouse’s permission or walk away? If the spouse refuses, then they are essentially lowering you to the status of property. They are holding your body hostage to their whims, and that is revolting. Disgusting as that behaviour may be, it does not justify breaking a promise and being a sneak on the side. The cheating spouse is either greedy, a coward, or both. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-adultery-wrong/558470/63 "2010-10-27T17:47:14Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > …In short, marriage should not be a prison, and nobody should be condemned to a life of suffering and frustration as a result of being married. But it should be done with the consent of the spouse, … you mean the spouse consents to your suffering? You been talking to my ex-wife? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-adultery-wrong/558470/64 "2010-10-27T18:49:42Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > It’s (almost) always immoral to lie to people. In this case, spouse A should say to spouse B “Honey, you refuse me intimacy and you refuse to allow me to get it elsewhere. So I’m giving you the choice: allow me to be intimate with others or I’m leaving you.” Or even “I’m going to fuck other people. Do what you want with that information but I’ve already made my choice.” What’s wrong with that? > > Even when your actions are not wrong, it is still wrong to lie about it to relevant parties. Let everybody involved know what’s up so they can make informed decisions. Marriage is a contract, and violating the terms of a contract (unless all parties agree) is wrong even if you inform the other party. If it is a deal breaker, there is nothing wrong with ending the marriage - just staying in it and violating the wishes of the other party. This doesn’t apply to just sex. If you’ve agreed to not make big purchases without mutual consent, going out and buying a Mercedes is wrong also, even though you tell the other party you have. “I need it” is not an excuse. ETA: And, on topic, if the partner agrees with someone messing around outside if marriage because of a lack of interest, it is still adultery but not wrong. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-adultery-wrong/558470/65 "2010-10-27T23:29:48Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Starting off from the aphorism “If you’re not a liberal when you’re young you have no heart / if you’re not a conservative when you’re old you have no brain”, I’m getting a bit concerned about \*\*Curtis LeMay / Qin Shi Huangdi \*\*. He’s kind of far to the right of Alex Keaton, if you know what I mean - is he going to have an epiphany and change his name to **Timothy Leary** or what? I think he’s more likely to join ranks with the Phelps Phamily. He’d be a lot better off if he did embrace the philosophy of good old Timothy Leary, though. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2010, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-adultery-wrong/558470/66 "2010-10-28T06:20:08Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Is adultery or to put it more bluntly sexual acts by married person to a person outside the marriage always immoral? Yep You stood at an altar or before a judge and repeated vows, if those vows were real and meaningful to both marital parties, then sexual relations outside the marriage are wrong and immoral. If those vows were not real and meaningful to either marital party, then the marriage itself was immoral, and all you have is a marriage of convience. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2010, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-adultery-wrong/558470/67 "2010-10-28T06:23:07Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Yep > > You stood at an altar or before a judge and repeated vows, if those vows were real and meaningful to both marital parties, then sexual relations outside the marriage are wrong and immoral. > > If those vows were not real and meaningful to either marital party, then the marriage itself was immoral, and all you have is a marriage of convience. > > Declan But you are assuming what those vows are. Spanish civil marriages do not require a vow of fidelity. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2010, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-adultery-wrong/558470/68 "2010-10-28T06:38:11Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > But you are assuming what those vows are. Spanish civil marriages do not require a vow of fidelity. I can get the fact that the state does not care if your playing around in a marriage, but are civil marriages common enough in spain ? I am more used to the idea of a church marriage with a civil license to do so , but we have enough people that use the civil marriage that it has to be added to be inclusive. But to me , bottom line is that either the pomp and ceremony of a church wedding , or the antisceptic Justice of the Peace office, essentially you gave your word in front of witnesses, that you were now married, off the market and so forth. Relations outside the marriage bed may well be acceptable to some , but I believe that most everyone would expect fidelity. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2010, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-adultery-wrong/558470/69 "2010-10-28T07:00:57Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > You stood at an altar or before a judge and repeated vows, if those vows were real and meaningful to both marital parties, then sexual relations outside the marriage are wrong and immoral. I’m not catholic. Whoever will conduct my marriage had better stay out of my sex life, thank you very much. I agree that if both partners promise (or imply) to be sexually faithful it’s not a good idea to break that promise. I would still not go as far as saying it’s _always_ immoral. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2010, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-adultery-wrong/558470/70 "2010-10-28T07:15:08Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > I’m not catholic. Whoever will conduct my marriage had better stay out of my sex life, thank you very much. > > **I agree that if both partners promise (or imply) to be sexually faithful** it’s not a good idea to break that promise. I would still not go as far as saying it’s _always_ immoral. That was my point, regardless of who conducts the ceremony. Its between you and whom ever you are going to marry(ied). Otherwise you are just looking for , or creating loopholes to justify playing the field. I say this in the generic you, as I don’t know you or your situation, and that would be presumptous. Declan ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2010, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-adultery-wrong/558470/71 "2010-10-28T07:15:49Z")
Declan has a point. Marriage is not necessarily sexually exclusive. There are lots of cultures which practice polygamy, most obviously, and others in which a married man can properly practice concubinage. But what determines whether a particular relationship infringes what marriage requires is not so much what one’s spouse thinks of it, as what society thinks of it. The whole point about marriage is that it’s not a private arrangement between the couple concerned and no-one else; it’s a step that the couple take so that what would otherwise be a purely private relationship becomes the concern of the entire community. The couple make _public_ commitments, in the presence of witnesses, to conform their lives to certain standards; they ask for recognition of those commitments, support in adhering to them, social reinforcement of them, and even some degree of legal enforcement of them. The fact that the ceremony may not involve an _explicit_ commitment to sexual exclusivity doesn’t necessarily mean that marriage involves no such commitment. In at least some US states the bare essentials of the civil marriage ceremony involve simply a spoken agreement to take one another as husband and wife. What “husband and wife” means is not set out. There is, for example, no reference to material or financial obligations towards one another. But if the couple separate it will not be possible to resist a claim for maintenance simply by pointing out that nothing was said in the marriage ceremony about maintenance. So, the question is, does the status of marriage, in a particular society, carry with it an expectation _on the part of society_ that the couple should endeavour to be sexually exclusive? My impression would be that in Spain sexual exclusivity is generally seen as a concomitant of marriage. I’m happy to be corrected by those who know Spanish society better than I do, but I’m certainly not persuaded simply by being told that there is no explicit commitment to this effect in the Spanish civil ceremony. It doesn’t necessarily follow that every act of sex outside the marriage will always be immoral. But in general it will be morally problematic, even if the spouses both freely consent, because of the the additional dimension of failing to adhere to a freely-undertaken solemn commitment. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2010, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-adultery-wrong/558470/72 "2010-10-28T12:30:33Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > Declan has a point. > It doesn’t necessarily follow that every act of sex outside the marriage will always be immoral. But in general it will be morally problematic, even if the spouses both freely consent, because of the the additional dimension of failing to adhere to a freely-undertaken solemn commitment. snip. I see what you are getting at, but I have to disagree. While common social definitions of the word imply sexual fidelity, there is no reason to assume that any activity outside of the marriage is unethical /immoral. Ultimately, the only arbiter of that is the couple themselves. While it should be socially assumed by the community that the couple is now “off the market”, the actions of the married are only accountable to each other. In my marriage, for example, my wife is bisexual though she leans strongly hetero at most times. Occasionally she wants to indulge the portion of her sexuality that I, as a man, cannot provide. We have a mutually beneficial arrangement for these occasions that everyone is happy with. Since everything is done with consent and trust, there is no unethical/ immoral behaviour. It isn’t about the sex, it is about the disrespect and lack of trust cheating demonstrates. Other couples have different arrangements and limits to their permissiveness. It takes far more than sexual exclusivity to make a successful marriage, and it shouldn’t be presumed to be an iron clad prerequisite to the state. ---
**Author:** ![Dunkelheit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dunkelheit/32/248_2.png) [@Dunkelheit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunkelheit)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-adultery-wrong/558470/73 "2010-11-01T12:40:48Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Is adultery or to put it more bluntly sexual acts by married person to a person outside the marriage always immoral? No. There are plenty of non-monogamous couples who don’t consider it immoral. Morality is extremely subjective, however, so your mileage will vary. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-adultery-wrong/558470/74 "2010-11-01T13:08:00Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > The vast majority of arranged marriages are freely entered by two people who want to create a family unit, expect fidelity of each other, and hope that love will grow. As a system, it’s results surely are not worse than our willy-nilly passion based on. Indeed, my impression is that in some contexts the “success” rate may even be higher, because there is an expectation that _working_ to make a successful marriage _precedes_ love. ---
**Author:** ![smileybastard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@smileybastard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smileybastard)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-adultery-wrong/558470/75 "2010-11-01T14:14:15Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Is adultery or to put it more bluntly sexual acts by married person to a person outside the marriage always immoral? I think adultery is immoral only if the marriage is still intact and there is no permission. Of course I don’t think it is intensely immoral as in many cases the harm involved is not radically different than simply telling your spouse you want a divorce. ---
**Author:** ![Dunkelheit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dunkelheit/32/248_2.png) [@Dunkelheit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunkelheit)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-adultery-wrong/558470/76 "2010-11-01T19:53:13Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Even when your actions are not wrong, it is still wrong to lie about it to relevant parties. Let everybody involved know what’s up so they can make informed decisions. Yes, precisely. ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-adultery-wrong/558470/77 "2010-11-03T00:58:00Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Is adultery or to put it more bluntly sexual acts by married person to a person outside the marriage always immoral? No, of course not. Mine is the voice of experience. 23 years with my husband 21 years of that married 10 years with my girlfriend 7 year old daughter 3 year old son [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-adultery-wrong/558470.md?page=3)