# Is Afghanistan "Worth It"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 6, 2010, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700 "2010-07-06T11:05:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/341 "2010-08-16T21:34:01Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > If you like polls, you will like this one done by the US Army. It says 95 percent of the residents of Khandihar want the Us and NATO to negotiate with the Taliban. Can you please explain why a poll consisting of only people in Khandahar has such different outcomes than polls that are nationwide? Do you think it is feasible that if we were to ask San Franciscans whether they think Nancy Pelosi should be the next president; or ask the people of Wasilla if Sarah Palin should be the next president; that those poll results are applicable to the whole United States? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/342 "2010-08-17T17:00:05Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > > [@gonzomax](#): > > > > If you like polls, you will like this one done by the US Army. It says 95 percent of the residents of Khandihar want the Us and NATO to negotiate with the Taliban. > > Can you please explain why a poll consisting of only people in Khandahar has such different outcomes than polls that are nationwide? > > Do you think it is feasible that if we were to ask San Franciscans whether they think Nancy Pelosi should be the next president; or ask the people of Wasilla if Sarah Palin should be the next president; that those poll results are applicable to the whole United States? I don’t think it is any different. This was a poll conducted by the US Army. When it says they want negotiations with the Taliban, it means they want peace. There is zero reason to think Khandihar is not representative . The Agfghanis want peace and all we promise is more war. there is no way you can stick San Francisco in there. That is dishonest. You would have to prove Khandihar is somehow not representative of Afghanistan as a whole. That it is a liberal city different than the rest of the country. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/343 "2010-08-17T17:11:30Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > > [@Ravenman](#): > > > > Can you please explain why a poll consisting of only people in Khandahar has such different outcomes than polls that are nationwide? > > > > Do you think it is feasible that if we were to ask San Franciscans whether they think Nancy Pelosi should be the next president; or ask the people of Wasilla if Sarah Palin should be the next president; that those poll results are applicable to the whole United States? > > I don’t think it is any different. This was a poll conducted by the US Army. When it says they want negotiations with the Taliban, it means they want peace. There is zero reason to think Khandihar is not representative . The Agfghanis want peace and all we promise is more war. there is no way you can stick San Francisco in there. That is dishonest. You would have to prove Khandihar is somehow not representative of Afghanistan as a whole. That it is a liberal city different than the rest of the country. Or like I previously mentioned and you ignored, which was the fact that Kandahar has, and always will be the spiritual capital of the Taliban movement since they took over in the 90’s. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/344 "2010-08-17T17:22:31Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > > [@gonzomax](#): > > > > LIAM, nobody wants the Taliban or Al Qeada to govern, but all options are just as bad. Al Qeada has 100 troops or less in Afghanistan. They are not going to govern. The Karzai government is illegitimate and corrupt. The people don’t want them, and we are identified as the force that keeps him in power. > > There is no rosy scenario. A democracy is not going to happen. When we finally walk away, and we will, the warlords will begin to fight for rights to the drug trade and to install their own corrupt fiefdoms. Only now they are all better armed and trained. The people lose in every case. > > No not all options are just as bad, where as with the current Government, there is ability to correct it, improve it, whilst having some semblence of democratic governance and an elected leader, do you really think the Taliban and their ilk will do the same thing? The Karzai government, even though it’s election was partly fraudalent, is ironically probably the most legitimate government in all of Afghanistan, because I don’t seem to remember anyone voting for the Taliban or various other assortments of warlords. > > And again, this ‘when we walk away’ BS, just because we withdraw our combat troops doesn’t necessarily equate a withdrawal of support of loss of international focus on the region. We will still support the security forces of Afghanistan and the Government even after we’ve left, we’re still going to train their commanders and generals and troops, and mentor their government and direct them towards a satisfactory standard. > > So again, you say no one wants the Taliban to govern, but the other options are just as bad, which implies why not just let the Taliban govern? Since they can’t do any worse. Which is one of the most ridiculous things I’ve heard. > > Afghanistan has been through the following: > > 30 year civil war > > no fully functional central authority for at least 10 years > > no education, no development. > > So, with this in mind, it’s going to take a little longer for them to be able to re-establish what they used to have before the Soviets invaded in 1979, isn’t it? On what do you base the idea that we can improve the Karzai government? They fixed the elections and the people were jobbed again. We have been propping the corrupt government for years and the people are offended. We have no moral standing. Afghani citizens die every day at the hands of American soldiers. in what way can you convince Afghanis that we have their best interests at heart when every day we prove we don’t? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/345 "2010-08-17T17:36:22Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > There is zero reason to think Khandihar is not representative . The Agfghanis want peace and all we promise is more war. there is no way you can stick San Francisco in there. That is dishonest. You would have to prove Khandihar is somehow not representative of Afghanistan as a whole. That it is a liberal city different than the rest of the country. You don’t know what the fuck you are talking about. As **Ryan\_Liam** has stated, Khandahar is the home of the Taliban. It was the first city they took on the Taliban’s rise to power, and the last city they fled when the US and NATO invaded. If you paid any attention to actual facts of what is happening in Afghanistan, you would know that coalition forces have for months been planning a major offensive on Kandahar because it is the major home for Taliban. If you are not acquainted with the basic facts of who the Taliban are and where they come from, I’m not sure why anyone should take your “insights” into Afghanistan seriously. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/346 "2010-08-20T16:06:04Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > > [@gonzomax](#): > > > > There is zero reason to think Khandihar is not representative . The Agfghanis want peace and all we promise is more war. there is no way you can stick San Francisco in there. That is dishonest. You would have to prove Khandihar is somehow not representative of Afghanistan as a whole. That it is a liberal city different than the rest of the country. > > You don’t know what the fuck you are talking about. > > As **Ryan\_Liam** has stated, Khandahar is the home of the Taliban. It was the first city they took on the Taliban’s rise to power, and the last city they fled when the US and NATO invaded. If you paid any attention to actual facts of what is happening in Afghanistan, you would know that coalition forces have for months been planning a major offensive on Kandahar because it is the major home for Taliban. > > If you are not acquainted with the basic facts of who the Taliban are and where they come from, I’m not sure why anyone should take your “insights” into Afghanistan seriously. 95 percent is a serious percentage. You can not be dismissive of it. It shows a huge movement toward peace. Negotiations are the only way this mess will ever end. You can not occupy a country like Afghanistan. We are losing. How do you suppose we handle Khandihar? It is a major city . Are you proposing we take over such a city. It would be a long and bloody battle. Then we would have to leave. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/347 "2010-08-20T18:54:11Z")
I’m not dismissive of the actual views of Afghans. I am dismissive of your understanding of what is happening in the country, since you don’t seem to have any kind of handle whatsoever on the geographic politics that you have raised in this discussion. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/348 "2010-08-23T02:54:45Z")
[Hamid Karzai: U.S. Taxpayer-Funded Private Contractors Engaging In Terrorist, Mafia-Like Activity | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/22/karzai-us-taxpayerfunded-_n_690385.html) Do you think Karzai has any understanding of the problems. It is always about money. It has been for 2000 years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700.md?page=17)