# Is Afghanistan "Worth It"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 6, 2010, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700 "2010-07-06T11:05:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/101 "2010-07-08T03:08:03Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Strange, 17 of the 19 highjackers were from Saudi Arabia. They funded it. It was planned there, Germany, Miami and a couple other places not including Afghanistan. Quit buying what the politicians and TV sell. They lie. I thought it was 15 of 19. Anyway, their leadership was in… where exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/102 "2010-07-08T03:30:57Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Is Afghanistan “Worth It”? No. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/103 "2010-07-08T03:32:58Z")
Well, **Susanann** has spoken! The discussion is over! All you Afghani women, get back into the kitchen! All the little boys ought to lube up! **Susanann** has decided your fate! ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/104 "2010-07-08T03:55:00Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Strange, 17 of the 19 highjackers were from Saudi Arabia. They funded it. It was planned there, Germany, Miami and a couple other places not including Afghanistan. Quit buying what the politicians and TV sell. They lie. You’ve made the same errors before, and I’ve corrected you before, but what’s one more time, eh? “They”, if you mean the Saudis in any official capacity, most certainly did not fund AQ. Afghanistan, on the other hand, did officially offer safe haven and training facilities to AQ, did officially grant them the use of government facilities and effectively made them a part of their ministry of defense. The notion that it’s a “lie” that Afghanistan was responsible for AQ after becoming their official state sponsor is… well, let’s just say it’s not a very coherent train of logic. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/105 "2010-07-08T04:01:56Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Remember the reeducation camps? Remember the one-party rule? Remember the police state? Yes, because being tortured or killed by Communists is ever so much worse than being tortured or killed by Americans or their puppets. Sure, you’re dead either way, but at least we kill you for God and Capitalism! ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/106 "2010-07-08T04:10:33Z")
You will note, I did not compare Vietnam to Afghanistan, as the comparison with Korea is much closer. Vietnam did not assault the world. North Korea and Afghanistan did. Both found war harsh when visited upon their own countries. Maybe they ought not to have started it. Now we need to ensure the Afghanis do not do it again. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/107 "2010-07-08T04:14:23Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Now we need to ensure the Afghanis do not do it again. And propping up a bunch of religious fanatics and thugs is such a perfect way to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/108 "2010-07-08T04:19:05Z")
Oh, you want perfection? Sorry, we are fresh out of that on this planet. This war will be long, bloody and have many more false paths and mistakes, just like every other war. We will make alliances with unsavory characters, just like every other war. We will do things we are not proud of, just like every other war. Fighting them is not a perfect way to destroy them, but it is the only way. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/109 "2010-07-08T04:40:18Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Oh, you want perfection? Sorry, we are fresh out of that on this planet. > > This war will be long, bloody and have many more false paths and mistakes, just like every other war. We will make alliances with unsavory characters, just like every other war. We will do things we are not proud of, just like every other war. > > Fighting them is not a perfect way to destroy them, but it is the only way. :rolleyes: Oh, please. Like always, all our brutality will do in the long run is manufacture more enemies, more people with perfectly good reasons to want to hurt us. Nor will the result be anything but a continuing hellhole. The idea that by supporting tyranny and thuggery and fanaticism we re going to actually improve Afghanistan is ridiculous. The idea that we have any desire to improve Afghanistan or anyplace else is almost equally ridiculous; your own rhetoric demonstrates just how amoral and sadistic our real attitude is. We’ll rape and torture and murder them (or hire it done) for their own good! ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/110 "2010-07-08T04:45:41Z")
Excellent point! That is why the brutality of World War Two led to the Germans and Japanese hating us! Like always! As you point out, all the Koreans hate us! Like Always! What a minute; your theory fails to model either the past or the present, yet somehow you are projecting it on the future? So I am amoral, but you want to leave their women, children, homosexuals and religious minorities to the tender mercies of the Taliban? Please explain how you find it moral to allow a culture that rapes children to survive. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/111 "2010-07-08T05:00:31Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Excellent point! That is why the brutality of World War Two led to the Germans and Japanese hating us! Like always! Did we set up fanatics and thugs over them? Although they do hate us near our bases since we have a propensity for assault, rape, and so forth. Not to mention that the situations aren’t really very analogous. Afghanistan was conquered by us as a stepping stone to Iraq, not because they were responsible for anything. Nor were they dominated by a culture that was sure of its inevitable superiority and victory, and therefore discredited by losing against us. > [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > What a minute; your theory fails to model either the past or the present, yet somehow you are projecting it on the future? I hear plenty of hatred for America from most of the places we’ve indulged our brutality on. No doubt that’s why you bring up the same three over and over. > [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > So I am amoral, but you want to leave their women, children, homosexuals and religious minorities to the tender mercies of the Taliban? Please explain how you find it moral to allow a culture that rapes children to survive. Because the alternative is people like you, who want to pay billions to support a culture that rapes children, and to do so and worse ourselves. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/112 "2010-07-08T05:07:28Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Afghanistan was conquered by us as a stepping stone to Iraq, not because they were responsible for anything. Cite? Remembering the voices in your head are not a cite. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I hear plenty of hatred for America from most of the places we’ve indulged our brutality on. No doubt that’s why you bring up the same three over and over. I see you have changed your tune. Before it way ‘Like always,’ now you seem to admit war can wipe out dictators and thugs. It is very brave of you to change your mind. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Because the alternative is people like you, who want to pay billions to support a culture that rapes children, and to do so and worse ourselves. I am willing to pay trillions to stop them from raping children. You are willing to ignore them raping children. ===eta=== I will be offline for the next few hours. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/113 "2010-07-08T06:47:04Z")
I am back. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/114 "2010-07-08T08:34:10Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Vietnam did not assault the world. North Korea and Afghanistan did. hmmmm. That’s a clincher right. Everyone can go home now . . . ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/115 "2010-07-08T08:44:19Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Cite? Remembering the voices in your head are not a cite. My “cite” is that’s what we did. We barely paid attention to Afghanistan in order to concentrate on Iraq. What next, do you want a cite that we fought Germany in WWII? > [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > I see you have changed your tune. Before it way ‘Like always,’ now you seem to admit war can wipe out dictators and thugs. It is very brave of you to change your mind. I didn’t changed my mind, i’m pointing out that you are trying to pretend that two pretty much unique and quite old examples have something to do with our very different present situation. > [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > I am willing to pay trillions to stop them from raping children. You are willing to ignore them raping children. Garbage; you are willing to pay trillions to ensure that “child rapers” stay in power, as long as they are child rapers who are American affiliated. just one of those “alliances with unsavory characters, just like every other war” that you are so comfortable with. Not that I believe for a moment that you actually care if a billion children are raped and set on fire afterward. You’ll just tell yourself it was all necessary For The Greater Good Of The World. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/116 "2010-07-08T08:52:19Z")
So **Paul** , you feel the United States should have stuck it out longer in Vietnam? Put more into it? And once Afghanistan is wrapped up (their culture destroyed and all that), you’d be in favor of invading other “backward” nations of the world, if it turns out there are any more? I’m just trying to get a fix on where you’re coming from. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/117 "2010-07-08T08:58:23Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > At the risk of a hijack, what’s this bizarre anachronistic trend to referring to money as “treasure,” at least in military circles? The amounts in question are too huge to be mere “money.” It’s like the wealth of whole kingdoms being expended. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/118 "2010-07-08T09:06:18Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > So **Paul** , you feel the United States should have stuck it out longer in Vietnam? Put more into it? Nope, there was no reason to fight in Vietnam. (Now what to do if you woke up as President after we had troops in Vietnam is a good questions. I suppose leaving would been best.) > [@spark240](#): > > And once Afghanistan is wrapped up (their culture destroyed and all that), you’d be in favor of invading other “backward” nations of the world, if it turns out there are any more? > > I’m just trying to get a fix on where you’re coming from. I am in favor of destroying any country that attacks me. ---
**Author:** ![Camus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ba8739/32.png) [@Camus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Camus)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/119 "2010-07-08T09:07:53Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Did we set up fanatics and thugs over them? Although they do hate us near our bases since we have a propensity for assault, rape, and so forth. Not true. While the bases in Okinawa are unpopular, the primary reason is because of the noise from the air bases and the significant proportion of the island they take up. Crime is certainly an issue at every US base on foreign soil, but you obviously have not been in or around any non-warzone US bases overseas if you honestly think that even a majority of locals in the surrounding communities hate Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/120 "2010-07-08T09:10:05Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > My “cite” is that’s what we did. We barely paid attention to Afghanistan in order to concentrate on Iraq. What next, do you want a cite that we fought Germany in WWII?. I seem to recall you claimed we went to war in Afghanistan in order to have some sort of base to later attack Iran. For that, I ask for a cite. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I didn’t changed my mind, Perhaps you ought. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Garbage; you are willing to pay trillions to ensure that “child rapers” stay in power, How odd, you know what I am thinking. The Voices again? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700.md?page=7)