# Is Afghanistan "Worth It"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 6, 2010, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700 "2010-07-06T11:05:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/121 "2010-07-08T09:19:52Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > I seem to recall you claimed we went to war in Afghanistan in order to have some sort of base to later attack Iran. For that, I ask for a cite. You recall wrong. > [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > How odd, you know what I am thinking. The Voices again? No; it’s because your position is clearly standard imperialism; “anything is justified if WE do it, no one but us matters”. Your rhetoric is all about how we have to be ruthless and brutal, about how the harm we inflict doesn’t matter, and about how other cultures need to be destroyed. And history shows what people like you do if you get the chance. I’m sure you’d cheerfully kill every last human being in Afghanistan, replace them with us superior Americans and our superior culture, and pat yourself on the back about how it was harsh but necessary for the greater good. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/122 "2010-07-08T09:39:46Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Afghanistan was conquered by us as a stepping stone to Iraq, not because they were responsible for anything. So who is this person using your name to post here? Your evil twin, Skippy? I ask (again) for a cite for your claim as noted above. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/123 "2010-07-08T09:58:59Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > All you Afghani women, get back into the kitchen! Ooh, can I play Arundhati Roy this time? “We are now being led to believe the marines are on a feminist mission.” ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/124 "2010-07-08T09:59:52Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > So who is this person using your name to post here? Your evil twin, Skippy? > > I ask (again) for a cite for your claim as noted above. I said stepping stone, not base. It had to be gotten out of the way in order to divert forces to Iraq; so it was taken over in as cheap and fast a fashion as possible. Which ensured that little actually changed in Afghanistan, gave us little control and let Bin Laden escape; but then Bush and friends never actually cared about him. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/125 "2010-07-08T10:04:24Z")
So your cite would be what again? ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/126 "2010-07-08T10:05:40Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Ooh, can I play Arundhati Roy this time? “We are now being led to believe the marines are on a feminist mission.” I say with no cite, that I seem to recall that the attack on Afghanistan was widely cheered by feminists (and rightly so). ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/127 "2010-07-08T10:23:52Z")
I think they might have paused in their cheering when the odd attack went astray, but let’s say you are correct. Are feminists the arbiter of who and where we bomb or a target group that has to be appeased? ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/128 "2010-07-08T10:29:26Z")
No, I was just replying to **marshmallow’s** comment. I am willing to attack countries with good human rights records or poor ones if they attack me. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/129 "2010-07-08T10:31:41Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > I am in favor of destroying any country that attacks me. What country, since WWII attacked US? Mind you, a country! ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/130 "2010-07-08T10:37:31Z")
Good point! Afghanistan made Al Quada a wing of its Ministry of Defense and aided them with oficial resources. Still I give you the point, had I been more careful, I would have said “culture” to avoid your excellent reply. (North Korea also, Cambodia also (but during a period of governmental disorder, probably a few more if we noodled over it). ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/131 "2010-07-08T10:45:23Z")
Has anybody actually asked the Afghanis what they want? ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/132 "2010-07-08T10:46:37Z")
Did anyone actually ask what the Germans wanted in 1942? Why would what they want matter? ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/133 "2010-07-08T10:51:20Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Has anybody actually asked the Afghanis what they want? The men want more goat stories in Playboy magazines, and the women want to be able to grow their beards as long as the men. Allegedly. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/134 "2010-07-08T10:54:32Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Did anyone actually ask what the Germans wanted in 1942? > > Why would what they want matter? Are you suggesting that Afghanistan 2001 = Germany 1942? Seriously, dude… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/135 "2010-07-08T10:56:26Z")
Why would I possibly care what the people of an enemy country want? Why would you? We need to destroy their culture and remake it so it can never be a threat to us again. ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/136 "2010-07-08T13:23:48Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > No, the Afghanis allowed their territory to be used to attack us. We will ensure that never happens again. We decided that their culture needed to be razed because the one they have now is a menace. America can’t even ensure that its own military supplies get trucked in safely, it’s paying money to people you say we have to break the back of to succeed to do that for us. Nobody apart from the real frothing-mouthed loonies is saying anything about razing Afghan culture. Our top military people like Petraeus are actually saying that we’ll have to negotiate with the Taliban and come to a deal with them. There’s quite a big difference between your nutjob rhetoric and reality. ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/137 "2010-07-08T13:24:53Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Let me check the title of the thread for you. (Pause) Nope, we are talking about Afghanistan, not Iraq. We’re also talking about Iraq. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Zanthor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@Zanthor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zanthor)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/138 "2010-07-08T14:31:32Z")
> [@Camus](#): > > If you’re going to refer to a report or article, link to it. But you don’t seem to know what forward operating bases are. They are not staging grounds for massive invasions. They are relatively small (and often times in Afghanistan, very crude) bases that serve as a small fort and depot far from any primary base or city that allows forces stationed there to conduct local operations. still waiting for a response. Is our invasion of the ME thus far simply a prelude to the main event?, yet to come??? Controlling Russia, China, Iran, Pakistan, Nth Korea, etc etc etc, the Nations who we must dominate, pillage for this planets, in descending order of what they can yield to us? surrender, This planets diminishing Energy sources… Secure all our self oriented, vested interests… its early days yet, time will tell, meanwhile’s. try this [http://rt.com/](http://rt.com/) more specifically this. [http://rt.com/Best\_Videos/2010-07-06...ar-russia.html](http://rt.com/Best_Videos/2010-07-06...ar-russia.html) i liked this vid, had the right amount of vivid descriptions of the derision and contempt for our ’ Full Spectrum Dominance’ we deserve… Notice how there was no fear of our superior weapons dominance, mainly derision. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/139 "2010-07-08T14:42:55Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > America can’t even ensure that its own military supplies get trucked in safely, it’s paying money to people you say we have to break the back of to succeed to do that for us. So we are buying them off? Good! Let them get rich! The Koreans and Japanese got rich off US contracts, that weaned them from their own culture. We ought to make as many Afghans as rich as possible. Their sick culture and government cannot withstand such a blow. > [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > Nobody apart from the real frothing-mouthed loonies is saying anything about razing Afghan culture. Did we not remake German culture? Japanese? Korean? So why is it any different in Afghanistan? > [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > Our top military people like Petraeus are actually saying that we’ll have to negotiate with the Taliban and come to a deal with them. Of course we will negotiate. How else can we win? We will negotiate from a position of strength. > [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > There’s quite a big difference between your nutjob rhetoric and reality. Please indicate these differences. ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700/140 "2010-07-08T15:10:20Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > So we are buying them off? Good! Let them get rich! The Koreans and Japanese got rich off US contracts, that weaned them from their own culture. We ought to make as many Afghans as rich as possible. Their sick culture and government cannot withstand such a blow. > > Did we not remake German culture? Japanese? Korean? So why is it any different in Afghanistan? > > Of course we will negotiate. How else can we win? We will negotiate from a position of strength. > > Please indicate these differences. We’re not going to put a dent in Afghan culture, never mind raze it. We’re going to be as successful in Afghanistan as we were in Vietnam or Iraq. We’re not in a position of strngth in Afghanistan, we’ve got an overstretched military and a bankrupt Treasury. We’re not in any position to dictate terms over there, the Taliban will negotiate with us at a time of their choosing. The difference between your nutty rhetoric and reality. You : We will ensure that never happens again. We decided that their culture needed to be razed because the one they have now is a menace. Fighting them is not a perfect way to destroy them, but it is the only way. I am in favor of destroying any country that attacks me. We need to destroy their culture and remake it so it can never be a threat to us again. and so on. The reality : (Reuters) - U.S. Army Gen. David Petraeus said on Wednesday that negotiations with some members of the Taliban could provide a way to reduce violence in sections of Afghanistan gripped by an intensifying insurgency. “If there are people who are willing to reconcile (with the government), then that would be a positive step in some of these areas that have actually been spiraling downward,” said Petraeus, who will soon take up responsibility for U.S. operations in Afghanistan. [http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE497AIT20081008](http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE497AIT20081008) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-afghanistan-worth-it/545700.md?page=8)