# Is "African-American" Fading? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 21, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183 "2009-05-21T16:12:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/21 "2009-05-21T20:06:48Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Except that it isn’t a “race” in any meaningful sense of the term. Sally Hemmings (Thomas Jefferson’s concubine) would be called “Black” today, and would have been called a “Negro” or worse when she was alive, but “racially” she was 3/4 European (her father and both grandfathers were White). I \*happily \*concede the race bit. However, Sally Hemmings would be called “black” today by the vast majority of the population, and “Black” only by those who feel the Need to randomly capitalize Words that Don’t need to be Capitalized. They also probably add extraneous apostrophes to make sure you’re aware that there is a letter S arriving soon. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/22 "2009-05-21T20:14:08Z")
Some people randomly capitalise; others (such as me) have method in their apparent madness. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/23 "2009-05-21T20:18:48Z")
And yet, madness it remains. **Asimovian** is a black person, not a Black person or even a Black Person. Did you ever see _yellow_ capitalized (back when it was in use?) ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/24 "2009-05-21T20:25:31Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Did you ever see _yellow_ capitalized (back when it was in use?) I did see “Yellow Peril” regularly capitalised. But the people who did not capitalise “yellow” probably also wrote “oriental” when they were trying to be polite and “wog” when they were being particularly offensive. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/25 "2009-05-21T20:30:40Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > I did see “Yellow Peril” regularly capitalised. But the people who did not capitalise “yellow” probably also wrote “oriental” when they were trying to be polite and “wog” when they were being particularly offensive. Do say you’re going to the Chinese restaurant as well? The Japanese steakhouse? ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/26 "2009-05-21T20:36:45Z")
> [@RedRosesForMe](#): > > Personally, I find it really stupid to have a word that only refers to one race of people living in one country. If it’s ok to call me white, how is it offensive to call someone else black? Yes. Things were so much simpler when we never tried to classify the dark people, and lumped them all into the group “colored.” ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/27 "2009-05-21T20:39:11Z")
I have a friend who is _from_ Africa who gets annoyed if someone uses the term - especially to describe himself. She’ll say: What part of Africa are you from? I dunno whether I agree with her or not, but I’m always amused by her. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/28 "2009-05-21T20:46:17Z")
African American is a legitimate descriptor of a people but rarely is black not easier to say and just as, if not more, accurate. A red onion isn’t red White grapes aren’t white A white rhino isn’t white A black rhino isn’t black White people aren’t white So “black people aren’t black” has never been a good argument IMO. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/29 "2009-05-21T20:49:29Z")
> [@Snickers](#): > > I’ve heard of it in newspapers and such, and have seen it on these very boards: “African American” can be very awkwardly used when the person in question isn’t, you know, American. Talking about a Jamaican or Brit or German and labeling him or her as an “African-American” (and it has happened) is definitely jarring… In 4th grade my teacher was really excited about how Nelson Mandela had just became the first “African-American” President of South Africa. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/30 "2009-05-21T22:04:49Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > It seems that way to me, and that Black is rebounding. OTOH, [google news](http://news.google.com/news?pz=1&ned=us&hl=en&q=african-american) pulls up 12,000 cites. (Hard to compare to Black, because it’s used in so many other contexts.) When I worked on papers in the middle-to-late 90s, the rule was to use “black” as a physical descriptor, and “African-American” as a cultural descriptor. For example, you would write “witnesses described the suspect as a 20-to-30-year-old black male,” (absolutely not “African-American male”) but you would write about an African-American festival or something like that. This makes sense to me, as black does not necessarily equal African-American. I never thought the word “black” had disappeared. In normal speech, I’ve always used the term “black” in preference to “African-American” if I were describing someone’s physical characteristics. ---
**Author:** ![RedRosesForMe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/91b2a8/32.png) [@RedRosesForMe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedRosesForMe)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/31 "2009-05-21T22:29:36Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Yes. Things were so much simpler when we never tried to classify the dark people, and lumped them all into the group “colored.” :dubious: 😕 And what part of my post do you take issue with? The obvious US-centric problem of “African-American”, or the fact that I don’t see why there needed to be a shift from the physical descriptor “black” in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/32 "2009-05-21T22:35:15Z")
I’ve heard people in Ireland (trying to be polite) using the term African-American for people from Nigeria. ---
**Author:** ![Auntbeast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Auntbeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Auntbeast)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/33 "2009-05-21T23:23:44Z")
I don’t think I’ve ever used the phrase “African American” in a sentence without sarcasm. Black works. Sincerely, Skinny, white chick ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/34 "2009-05-21T23:43:58Z")
Love, love, love the word Black, and hope it is going to totally take AA down. I am hearing AA less and less. I love Africa, and I love to think about and reflect on my ancestors from Africa. But I have always hated the term African American. ---
**Author:** ![installLSC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/54ee81/32.png) [@installLSC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/installLSC)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/35 "2009-05-22T01:51:31Z")
I wonder if this is a case of people outside the community caring much more than those actually in the community. I grew up in eastern Washington, an area with large Hispanic and American Indian populations. I’ve never heard an American Indian refer to themselves in everyday life as “Native American”, and almost all Hispanics refer to themselves as “Mexican” unless they actually were from other areas of Latin America. Why? The “politically correct” names are much longer and sound too formal. Plus while outsiders changed Mexican to Chicano to Hispanic to Latino, everyday people just preferred to stick with Mexican. I think “African American” falls in the same spot–some whites were afraid to seem insensitive by not using it, while most blacks really didn’t care. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/36 "2009-05-22T02:19:40Z")
> [@installLSC](#): > > almost all Hispanics refer to themselves as “Mexican” unless they actually were from other areas of Latin America. Why? The “politically correct” names are much longer and sound too formal. Plus while outsiders changed Mexican to Chicano to Hispanic to Latino, everyday people just preferred to stick with Mexican. Of course people from Mexico refer to themselves as “Mexican”. They’re Mexican! Now, they also happen to be hispanic . . . and latino . . . You’re just confused about terminology. These are all valid terms with different meanings, though with a lot of overlap. Mexican = someone from Mexico Hispanic = “in the style of the Spanish” (hence you can be black, white, Filipino, mestizo, African, etc, and still be hispanic. And it doesn’t just apply to people; food can also be hispanic, and architecture, and clothing, etc, etc.) Latino = Of a culture that speaks Latin-based languages, but especially all Americans south of the United States. Technically French Canadians and Italian Americans are latinos but no one ever uses it that way. Chicano = a Mexican American ---
**Author:** ![Ruby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/13edae/32.png) [@Ruby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruby)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/37 "2009-05-22T02:52:54Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > In 4th grade my teacher was really excited about how Nelson Mandela had just became the first “African-American” President of South Africa. That just makes my brain bleed. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/38 "2009-05-22T03:36:14Z")
African-American is a descriptor, not simply of phenotype but of national origin. So you can’t say, “oh, that African-American guy over there by the window,” because though he has dark skin, etc. he could be from Nigeria. Or Cuba. Or Canada. So that would be incorrect, though I think most people would get what you mean. African American became popular because it highlighted and gave acknowledgment to the origins of Black Americans in Africa. I like it for that reason. I grew up and went to school at a time when Africa was referred to as “the dark continent” and it was assumed that the entire place was, and always had been, a cultural and technological backwater. When I got to college and minored in Afro-American Studies, I learned about the West African kingdoms, the University of Timbuktu, and other great stuff like that. So I am proud to be descended from Africans and African-American makes that link clear. I capitalize Black for a few reasons. One, I edited an academic journal for a few years and our stylebook capitalized Black (as well as White). We also capitalized Yellow and Brown when referring to those social movements (yes, there was a Yellow Power movement in California in the 1960s and 1970s). The capitalization indicates that these categorizations also hold a political identity. You can be phenotypically black, but not be consciously Black. I also believe Whiteness is a social and political construct as well - you can read tons by researchers like Michelle Fine about this. You certainly don’t have to, and I’ve had editors for other books and journals I’ve published in change it to lower-case. No big worries there, but that’s how I write… ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/39 "2009-05-22T03:46:45Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > African-American is a descriptor, not simply of phenotype but of national origin. So you can’t say, “oh, that African-American guy over there by the window,” because though he has dark skin, etc. he could be from Nigeria. Or Cuba. Or Canada. So that would be incorrect, though I think most people would get what you mean. There are some layers of confusion here, because a Canadian is an American, in a lot of people’s eyes. Canada is just as much a part of America as the United States, or Mexico, or Argentina is. Ethnic, cultural, and racial descriptors are just not an exact science. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/40 "2009-05-22T04:09:08Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Love, love, love the word Black, and hope it is going to totally take AA down. I am hearing AA less and less. > > I love Africa, and I love to think about and reflect on my ancestors from Africa. But I have always hated the term African American. Would you say this is a common sentiment, or do you consider yourself an exception? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183.md?page=3)