# Is "African-American" Fading? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 21, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183 "2009-05-21T16:12:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/41 "2009-05-22T04:52:08Z")
I never heard the term “African American” until I was in high school, before that it was just Black, a term which had no negative association to it in any way so far as I had ever been aware (nor have I ever yet heard of anything particularly wrong with it beyond that African American was preferred). But while, in general, I’d rather call someone by what he wants to be called, African American is just too lengthy and cumbersome. It’s a sentence in itself. It’d be like someone saying that you can only call animals by their latin name. That just seems excessive when there’s perfectly decent standard English names that are well recognized and mean the same thing for nearly all purposes. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/42 "2009-05-22T06:08:08Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > There are some layers of confusion here, because a Canadian is an American, in a lot of people’s eyes. Canada is just as much a part of America as the United States, or Mexico, or Argentina is. Ethnic, cultural, and racial descriptors are just not an exact science. I think you’re being a little pedantic here. I know people from Canada, Mexico, and Argentina, and they don’t use the term “American” to refer to themselves (unless they are naturalized citizens of the United States of America). Those descriptors are Canadian, Mexican, and Argentinean. I’d love to hear if there are sizable numbers of folks from the countries you mention that call themselves Americans. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/43 "2009-05-22T06:56:30Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Except that it isn’t a “race” in any meaningful sense of the term. Sally Hemmings (Thomas Jefferson’s concubine) would be called “Black” today, and would have been called a “Negro” or worse when she was alive, but “racially” she was 3/4 European (her father and both grandfathers were White). Are you sure? If she called herself white, why would not dudes of today beleive her? Ihave a freind who is 1/4 black, and he looks as white as I do, unless I hadn’t seen his mother (and he hadn;t said he was 1/4 black) I would have no idea. I think we have got beyond the old “one drop” idea and if you look somewhat mixed, then you can pretty well self-identify as you prefer. I have had at least one black dudette go off on being called “black”: “Does my skin look black to you? No, I am not black, I am a lovely mocha brown.” She was serious. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/44 "2009-05-22T07:00:13Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I have had at least one black dudette go off on being called “black”: “Does my skin look black to you? No, I am not black, I am a lovely mocha brown.” She was serious. Personally, I’m “flesh colored”. (At least back when there was only one in a crayon box.) ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/45 "2009-05-22T12:46:32Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I think we have got beyond the old “one drop” idea and if you look somewhat mixed, then you can pretty well self-identify as you prefer. The question of importance is not how people self-identify. It’s how they are identified by the majority of outsiders. The “one drop” rule is still in practice because by default if you look like you have African ancestry, even if you have light skin, you are more apt to be called black than anything else. Throw me in the bunch who don’t mind A-A or black, and find it hilarious that white people care so much about this topic. To me they are not synonymous terms, so I don’t see what the problem is. Black denotes race; A-A refers to ethnicity. Capitalizing “black” makes sense to me, but I leave it lowercase because of social convention. Nigerian immigrants are not A-A and were never meant to be called A-A. Neither is Charlize Theron or Dave Matthews. Parse any ethnic label down to its literal components and you’ll get confusion. After all, everyone born in the US is a “Native American” but somehow when we use this term we understand what is being communicated. And Obama’s skin is not literally black, and yet few get hung up on that when he is refered to as a black man. The above represents of rough synopsis of everything I’ve ever said on this topic in the last 5 years. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/46 "2009-05-22T13:05:37Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > The question of importance is not how people self-identify. It’s how they are identified by the majority of outsiders. The “one drop” rule is still in practice because by default if you look like you have African ancestry, even if you have light skin, you are more apt to be called black than anything else. If you have only one drop of black blood you probably don’t look like you have any. Now, if you’re half-black, people will probably call you black (see Obama, etc.), but that’s different. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/47 "2009-05-22T13:36:32Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > If you have only one drop of black blood you probably don’t look like you have any. “One drop” is in quotes for a reason. It’s not meant to indicate a literal drop of blood\*. My point is that if you look white, then odds are you will be seen as white. But if you look like you have an African ancestor, then odds are you will be perceived as black…or at least not-white. \*Ack, getting flashbacks to a bad time…some of yall know what I talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/48 "2009-05-22T13:41:46Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > “One drop” is in quotes for a reason. It’s not meant to indicate a literal drop of blood\*. My point is that if you look white, then odds are you will be seen as white. But if you look like you have an African ancestor, then odds are you will be perceived as black…or at least not-white. Well, yes, but based on the mixed folk I know, I don’t think Sally Hemings would have looked “black” to most people today. I could be wrong. ETA: And back in the day, the “one drop” rule certainly was literally that- if you were known to have a black ancestor, in the eyes of the law you were black, even if you looked like… _ponders who the whitest person in the world is_… Anne Hathaway? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/49 "2009-05-22T13:54:19Z")
It’s hard to compare those days to now, since the non-black people back then were probably a lot whiter, on average, than today. Since that time there’s been a lot of immigration by other nationalities with swarthier complexions, so someone with a swarthy complexion doesn’t stand out as much as he might have back then. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/50 "2009-05-22T14:12:54Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > ETA: And back in the day, the “one drop” rule certainly was literally that- if you were known to have a black ancestor, in the eyes of the law you were black, even if you looked like… _ponders who the whitest person in the world is_… Anne Hathaway? Okay, but “known to have a black ancestor” is different than _looking_ like you have a black ancestor. I have little doubt Sally would have been able to pass as a white woman, but only by keeping her ancestry a secret. Pedigree was a bigger deal back in the day, particularly in the race-obsessed south, where “passers” were a threat to the white purity ideal. Everyone kept track of everyone’s parents and grandparents and great grandparents; your heritage moreso than your phenotype determined what your race and social position your were. That’s why the passing phenomenon even existed. You “passed” as a white person by keeping your family tree a secret from others. Nowadays, we don’t know most people’s geneaology unless they tell us. So all we have to go by is phenotype. If that black ancestor shows in your appearance, that marks you as black (just as it did in Sally’s day), even if most of your ancestors are white. This is still the “one drop” rule in practice. It’s just not as deep as it was in the 19th century because few people know or care what race someone else’s grandparents were. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/51 "2009-05-22T14:17:07Z")
> [@RedRosesForMe](#): > > :dubious: 😕 > > And what part of my post do you take issue with? The obvious US-centric problem of “African-American”, or the fact that I don’t see why there needed to be a shift from the physical descriptor “black” in the first place? Um, I didn’t take issue with any of it. I think it’s silly that we’d invent a term to specifically reference black people from America, then decide to use it interchangeably with the term “black” in general. I was joking about the second part. Perhaps I should begin punctuating my posts with emoticons. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/52 "2009-05-23T00:15:17Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > Would you say this is a common sentiment, or do you consider yourself an exception? If I were to _guess_ (and I can only guess; haven’t read any polls or anything) I would guess that most black people don’t care that much. I, on the otherhand, _really_ love the word black. For lots of reasons, starting with the actual sound of the word. I won’t care much if others use the term African American. I mean I hate it, but I’m not offended or anything. ---
**Author:** ![Creaky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e68b1a/32.png) [@Creaky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Creaky)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/53 "2009-05-23T00:26:31Z")
> [@Cowboy8467](#): > > All I can relate is my personal experiences as a 24 year old white guy living in DC. Very few people in my generation use African-American, we simply use black & white. Yeah. I live in Maryland. The term"African American" seems to be used primarily by self-conscious Baby Boomers. Most of the people I know just say black or white. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/54 "2009-05-23T01:40:30Z")
> [@Snickers](#): > > I’ve heard of it in newspapers and such, and have seen it on these very boards: “African American” can be very awkwardly used when the person in question isn’t, you know, American. Talking about a Jamaican or Brit or German and labeling him or her as an “African-American” (and it has happened) is definitely jarring. > > Yeah, it’s PC, but it’s also very US-centric, which is arguably worse. People who refer to black people who aren’t from the U.S. as “African-American” are just on auto-pilot and not thinking about what they’re saying. They’re not trying to claim that all black people are American or anything; they’ve just trained themselves not to say “black,” so “African-American” spills out instead. I can’t see that there’s anything offensively “US-centric” in the term, any more so than in someone calling themself “Irish-American.” [QUOTE=Hippy Hollow] I think you’re being a little pedantic here. I know people from Canada, Mexico, and Argentina, and they don’t use the term “American” to refer to themselves (unless they are naturalized citizens of the United States of America). Those descriptors are Canadian, Mexican, and Argentinean. I’d love to hear if there are sizable numbers of folks from the countries you mention that call themselves Americans. [/QUOTE] It’s funny, because multiple times I’ve heard Canadians (and sometimes Europeans, but never, strangely, anyone from South or Central America) use the fact that Americans call themselves…Americans…as an example of the horrible arrogance and presumptuousness of people from the U.S.A. :rolleyes: Yet somehow I suspect that those same Canadians would be horrified if anyone casually referred to them as Americans! ---
**Author:** ![Lama\_Pacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Lama\_Pacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lama_Pacos)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/55 "2009-05-23T01:44:58Z")
Fading or not, African-American is a useful term _alongside_ black, because the latter refers to people in the U.S., the U.K., Ghana, South Africa, Peru, Jamaica, Cuba, France, Sudan, etc. etc., while the former designates black Americans. Still, though, we have no way to distinguish the very different heritages of people like Michelle Obama, who are descended from slaves and have been in the U.S. for a very long time, and people like Barack Obama, who are descended from recent immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/56 "2009-05-23T02:54:27Z")
> [@Lama\_Pacos](#): > > Still, though, we have no way to distinguish the very different heritages of people like Michelle Obama, who are descended from slaves and have been in the U.S. for a very long time, and people like Barack Obama, who are descended from recent immigrants. Sure we do. You just did. ---
**Author:** ![RedRosesForMe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/91b2a8/32.png) [@RedRosesForMe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedRosesForMe)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/57 "2009-05-23T02:55:16Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Um, I didn’t take issue with any of it. I think it’s silly that we’d invent a term to specifically reference black people from America, then decide to use it interchangeably with the term “black” in general. > > I was joking about the second part. Perhaps I should begin punctuating my posts with emoticons. 😉 Whew! Sorry about that, I was wondering if something I’d said came off as saying “we shouldn’t try to differentiate the dark people.” ---
**Author:** ![Lama\_Pacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Lama\_Pacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lama_Pacos)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/58 "2009-05-23T04:34:30Z")
> [@Green Bean](#): > > Sure we do. You just did. I think that’s a bit pedantic. Anything can be explained in so many words, but for useful distinctions that are otherwise lengthy to describe, concise terms can be helpful. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/59 "2009-05-23T18:48:22Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > I think you’re being a little pedantic here. I know people from Canada, Mexico, and Argentina, and they don’t use the term “American” to refer to themselves (unless they are naturalized citizens of the United States of America). Those descriptors are Canadian, Mexican, and Argentinean. > > I’d love to hear if there are sizable numbers of folks from the countries you mention that call themselves Americans. You’re skeptical that people from America are Americans? 😕 I assure you that if you knew enough people from Latin America, or took a college course in North American, South American, Latin American, or Western Hemisphere studies, you would be thoroughly disabused of this notion. It’s commonly cited as a point of arrogance that we think we’re the only Americans. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183/60 "2009-05-23T23:52:38Z")
> [@Creaky](#): > > Yeah. I live in Maryland. The term"African American" seems to be used primarily by self-conscious Baby Boomers. Most of the people I know just say black or white. Florida here. The only time I have ever heard the term used is in a sarcastic manner or in a formal business/social setting where someone wants to seem like they are using the proper terms. I have absolutely never heard a person use the term in a casual, normal conversation. It is always black.. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-african-american-fading/497183.md?page=4)