# Is Air Force One literally an Air Force plane? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-air-force-one-literally-an-air-force-plane/774112 "2016-12-07T15:01:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-air-force-one-literally-an-air-force-plane/774112/41 "2016-12-08T15:23:38Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > He’s the commander-in-chief. They can’t make him do it, though they can make him pay for modifications to the 757. His term will be over before they can finish. Then it all has to be removed. Meanwhile, he has to use AF1 anyway. Eventually, AF1 still needs to be replaced. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-air-force-one-literally-an-air-force-plane/774112/42 "2016-12-08T15:28:48Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Thanks, I’d forgotten those. What about that 757, Trump Force One? I suspect he won’t use AF1 because his plane is more to his liking. Historical tidbit… The term “Air Force One” did not come about until 1953. That year, an Eastern Airlines, Flight 8610, was flying in the same airspace as Air Force 8610, the plane carrying President Eisenhower. Eastern 8610 - Air Force 8610 was too similar and confusion could result. To avoid any future call sign confusion, the presidential plane would be referred to as “Air Force One” from then on. ETA: He’s the POTUS. He can fly in a Cessna if he chooses and give the Secret Service guards coronaries. Security for Trump Force One, How about 2 F-16s along side. It would work. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-air-force-one-literally-an-air-force-plane/774112/43 "2016-12-08T15:38:17Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > [Well, yeah, except for that it was… \*\*\*this \*\*\*bunch](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_XRxChPrsw). It sure made for a grand opening shot, though. > [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > I’m not even going to bother reporting this as a stupid political jab, because it was decidely stupid snark. **Moderator Note** **JRDelirious** , let’s refrain from political jabs in GQ. And **Leo Bloom** , let’s refrain from junior modding. If you have a problem with a post, _report it_, don’t address it yourself. No warnings issued. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Hocus\_Pocus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/41988e/32.png) [@Hocus\_Pocus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hocus_Pocus)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-air-force-one-literally-an-air-force-plane/774112/44 "2016-12-08T15:39:38Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Nixon flew commercial right after the 55 speed limit went into effect to symbolically do his part for conservation by not using AF1. > > Rather wasted since AF1 then flew from DC to California to pick him up for the flight home. When it comes to POTUS flying somewhere the cost of the a/c that he/she flies on is just part of the cost. There are several other a/c that also travel wherever POTUS goes. And Trump would be felony stupid to fly on anything other than AF1. The possibility of a terrorist taking out Executive One w/ a SAM is a very real threat. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-air-force-one-literally-an-air-force-plane/774112/45 "2016-12-08T16:25:24Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > ETA: He’s the POTUS. He can fly in a Cessna if he chooses and give the Secret Service guards coronaries. Security for Trump Force One, How about 2 F-16s along side. It would work. A fighter escort would be a fine defense against an airborne attack, but could do nothing to fend off a surface-launched missile targeting AF1 (other than attacking the launch site after the damage has already been done). A comprehensive defense requires that countermeasures (flares, chaff, EW systems) be installed directly on the target aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-air-force-one-literally-an-air-force-plane/774112/46 "2016-12-08T17:29:46Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Nixon flew commercial right after the 55 speed limit went into effect to symbolically do his part for conservation by not using AF1… Jesus what a nightmare for the Secret Service. Not to speak of the entire military command and control plans. I presume the other travellers were not the usual commercial passengers and tourists. Nor can I see Joe Airliner Pilot given command. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-air-force-one-literally-an-air-force-plane/774112/47 "2016-12-08T19:55:08Z")
Things were a bit less formal back then. I think Reagan was the first POTUS to receive the sort of “fuck you guys we’re going to protect him” sort of security we take for granted today. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-air-force-one-literally-an-air-force-plane/774112/48 "2016-12-08T20:03:32Z")
It was a regularly scheduled commercial flight - United DC-10, IAD-LAX. From a Time Magazine article: > [@](#): > > As the year came to a close, President Nixon got away for a few days’ rest. Flying to California, he did his bit to ease the energy crisis with a symbolic act of conspicuous nonconsumption. Instead of traveling in Air Force One, the President, Wife Pat, Daughter Tricia, nine staffers and 13 Secret Service agents went, unannounced, aboard a United Air Lines DC-10. > > Nixon left his $217.64 first-class seat and spent half an hour walking the aisles in the tourist-class section happily holding a baby, signing autographs and chatting amiably with passengers while Press Secretary Ron Ziegler snapped photos. When one 16-year-old girl blurted out: “You look like Bob Hope!”, Nixon grinned and replied: “He’s a good friend of mine.” As he left the compartment, the passengers gave the President a standing ovation. ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-air-force-one-literally-an-air-force-plane/774112/49 "2016-12-08T21:02:58Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > Just that there’s comm and crypto gear no civilian airliner would legally use or possess. Protected by espionage laws, classified information handling laws, or munitions restriction laws. In the biz, this kind of comm gear is called a Type 1 product. This designation means that the hardware and encryption technique has been evaluated by NSA and deemed robust enough to obscure classified traffic. The device itself is a CCI or controlled cryptographic item. If the CCI has a key filled, it is holds the same level of classification as that key. They pop up from time to time in my radio hobby community but I’m not aware of any arrests. However, CCI gear cannot be legally sold or surplused and is subject to seizure with questioning by Federal law enforcement. My understanding is that this isn’t handled as a breach of national security for a classified materials leak. It is more recovery of stolen or, more likely, improperly surplused/DRMO’d equipment. > **[NSA product types](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_product_types)** > > The U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) used to rank cryptographic products or algorithms by a certification called product types. Product types were defined in the National Information Assurance Glossary (CNSSI No. 4009, 2010) which used to define Type 1, 2, 3, and 4 products. The definitions of numeric type products have been removed from the government lexicon and are no longer used in government procurement efforts. > A Type 1 product was a device or system certified by NSA for use in crypto... ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-air-force-one-literally-an-air-force-plane/774112/50 "2016-12-08T21:18:39Z")
Never directly answered this one. > [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Which agency is responsible for procurement of the physical aircraft? Are these DOD procurements under the military budget, or are the in the White House budget? Can’t address funding, except that as far as I know it’s obligated (federally budgeted) Department of the Air Force funding. The actual acquiring agency is almost certainly Air Force Materiel Command (AFMC)'s Air Force Life Cycle Management Center (AFLCMC). They tend to be the ones to buy most Air Force mission systems, including the aircraft in the Air Force inventory. Probably the Air Force Mobility Programs Program Office, per the [biography](http://www.af.mil/AboutUs/Biographies/Display/tabid/225/Article/108630/kevin-w-buckley.aspx) of the current Senior Executive Service (SES) leader of that office: > [@biography](#): > > He is responsible for program execution, executive management and supervision responsibilities of all ACAT I, II, and III programs in the Mobility Aircraft portfolio to include the C-5, C-17, C-27J, C-130J, C-130 Legacy, Mature and Proven Aircraft, **Very Important Person and Special Duty Aircraft** , Training Aircraft, and the Large Aircraft Infrared Countermeasures (LAIRCM) System. Emphasis added. The Presidential Transport mission is pretty much the canonical definition of the “VIP and Special Duty” category. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-air-force-one-literally-an-air-force-plane/774112/51 "2016-12-09T07:11:07Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Any idea why they used the 747-200? The -300 project was underway in 1980, before the VC-25 design and construction. Did they just want to stick with the tried and true? I believe the later 747-200s had most of the improvements of the 747-300 except the stretched upper deck, which meant that they had a little more range since they were slightly lighter. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-air-force-one-literally-an-air-force-plane/774112/52 "2016-12-09T07:52:39Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Turn it over to the kids for four to eight years, I suspect. The Secret Service and Pentagon will probably insist he travel on Air Force One to be better-protected and more reliably-connected with the military in any crisis. Given that Trump has already demonstrated that he cares very little for the opinions of “experts”, I can see a confrontation occurring very early on in his administration where he refuses to use AF-1 for some reason. So if he does fly on his own plane on official business can he make the US government reimburse him for hiring his own plane? ---
**Author:** ![kferr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71e660/32.png) [@kferr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kferr)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-air-force-one-literally-an-air-force-plane/774112/53 "2016-12-09T13:37:01Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Most, if not almost all the extra modifications involve classified materials/equipment/construction. > > I doubt your average Boeing factory worker would qualify for the security clearance or know how to do the modifications. > > ETA: there’s also the problem of security in the Boeing plant. I was working at Boeing in Wichita at the time the current planes were being fitted out. Here they fitted the ‘mundane’ stuff such as oxygen systems, galleys, furniture, etc. They were still in their bright green primer color we called them the flying pickles. One of the stories I heard was that one day the workers were going to be installing a very expensive custom wooden desk. Being good union workers that they were, when the lunch horn sounded they stopped work and went to lunch. Leaving the expensive bit of furniture out in the rain to get ruined. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-air-force-one-literally-an-air-force-plane/774112/54 "2016-12-09T19:44:43Z")
Sounds apocryphal. I doubt any expensive desk would be damaged by an hour’s worth of rain. A desk is quite likely to have liquids such as coffee spilled on it occasionally. If it can stand that, it can stand a little rain. [Interesting trivia](http://www.eclewis.com/random-trivia-about-air-force-one/): Nixon was in flight at the exact moment that Ford took over as president. His plane took off as Air Force One, but not when it landed. I wonder if the reverse could happen. If LBJ had been in flight at the moment Kennedy died, would his plane have instantly become Air Force One? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-air-force-one-literally-an-air-force-plane/774112/55 "2016-12-11T05:14:27Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Sounds apocryphal. I doubt any expensive desk would be damaged by an hour’s worth of rain. A desk is quite likely to have liquids such as coffee spilled on it occasionally. If it can stand that, it can stand a little rain. Umm, I don’t think the alarming part is whether the desk was damaged or not, what should be alarming is the worker attitude. :eek::dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-air-force-one-literally-an-air-force-plane/774112/56 "2016-12-11T05:15:52Z")
From a logistics and maintenance perspective, wouldn’t it be better for the new Air Force One to be Boeing’s newcoming 777X airilner? That airliner will be in production for decades, whereas the 747 is going to be phased out from service around the world in upcoming decades. Unless that Boeing 747-8 really has longterm staying power and airlines suddenly love it. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-air-force-one-literally-an-air-force-plane/774112/57 "2016-12-11T06:06:36Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Umm, I don’t think the alarming part is whether the desk was damaged or not, what should be alarming is the worker attitude. :eek::dubious: Should we be bothered by worker attitude in an apocryphal story? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-air-force-one-literally-an-air-force-plane/774112/58 "2016-12-11T14:36:23Z")
The thing that tells me this is an apocryphal story is why the desk is outside. All this finishing fitment work to the airplane takes place inside a hangar. The warehouse where parts are stored is indoors also. So why was this expensive piece of equipment stored outside, even temporarily? So somebody can tell a story; that’s why. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-air-force-one-literally-an-air-force-plane/774112/59 "2016-12-11T14:41:17Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The thing that tells me this is an apocryphal story is why the desk is outside. All this finishing fitment work to the airplane takes place inside a hangar. The warehouse where parts are stored is indoors also. > > So why was this expensive piece of equipment stored outside, even temporarily? > > So somebody can tell a story; that’s why. Maybe the lunch bell rang as it was being transported from storage to assembly. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-air-force-one-literally-an-air-force-plane/774112/60 "2016-12-11T14:46:20Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > From a logistics and maintenance perspective, wouldn’t it be better for the new Air Force One to be Boeing’s newcoming 777X airilner? That airliner will be in production for decades, whereas the 747 is going to be phased out from service around the world in upcoming decades. Unless that Boeing 747-8 really has longterm staying power and airlines suddenly love it. Yes, that would be better from that perspective. OTO, USAF is still supporting the KC-135 50 years after the last close commercial equivalent (707/720) was built. So that factor is clearly not decisive. Especially not in a few aircraft fleet where cost is essentially no object. Countervailing issues: Total load carrying capacity of the 747-8 is greater. Given air refueling, the 777X series’ greater range is not a useful offset. Cubic feet of interior, including cargo areas, and weight lifting capacity are key to the presidential mission. 777X won’t be available for another 2-4 years. However long it’ll take to get the first presidential 747-8 flying, it’d be that much longer for the presidential 777X. Which may be a bridge too far in supporting the current aging 747s. National ego: It’s got to be THE biggest, not merely big. Do not underestimate this issue. Note I bring this up while Obama is President, not Trump. ETOPS: Despite all the airliner experience with two-engine long-range flight, including the occasional long range one-engine flight, this is the President we’re talking about. At the extreme limit, a 747 can make an emergency getaway on three engines with one engine unable to start. A twin can’t. For whatever reasons, sound and unsound, belt and suspenders just isn’t good enough for the President; there need to be 7 sets of each. 4 engines \> 2 engines may well be the major determiner in this whole tradeoff space. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-air-force-one-literally-an-air-force-plane/774112.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-air-force-one-literally-an-air-force-plane/774112.md?page=4)