# Is alcohol taxonomy finite? (or, explain alcohol to me) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** liquor-alcohol\ **Created:** [April 25, 2023, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcohol-taxonomy-finite-or-explain-alcohol-to-me/983172 "2023-04-25T15:37:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2023, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcohol-taxonomy-finite-or-explain-alcohol-to-me/983172/1 "2023-04-25T15:37:48Z")
Normally I don’t give two thoughts about alcohol (not a drinker) but I was watching a show about the history of Smirnoff & Maker’s Mark in America, and I had this thought. There are all sorts of types of alcohol and from what I can tell there are “rules” as to what they are. A vodka is this, a Chardonnay is that, an IPA is that, etc. I understand that within these categories then there can be many variations, hence the proliferation of brands and types. Are all of these top and second-level categories of alcohol old and finite? Are they ancient? Can there be a new type of beer that isn’t a lager or pilsner or whatever? A new type of spirit that isn’t brandy or vodka or tequila? What’s the newest classification for alcohol? When did alcohol start to be classified? Are classifications international or is something that’s say, a wine in one country considered a brandy in another? (that sounds silly, probably not a thing) ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2023, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcohol-taxonomy-finite-or-explain-alcohol-to-me/983172/2 "2023-04-25T15:41:27Z")
I’m not even sure you find broad agreement amongst the various sub-types of alcohol, as I discovered earlier. > [@How to become a single malt connoisseur](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-become-a-single-malt-connoisseur/979115/70): > > I see your point. I too enjoy both stouts and pilsners. And I can discuss which I prefer paired with what or on what occasion / circumstance. But I have a hard time with the idea of comparing their respective features. They’re IMO too different to intercompare. Yes, they both share their beer-ness, but IMO that’s a comment mostly about production technique, not about the consumption experience. Of booze, my favorite genres in general are scotch, bourbon, and gin in that order. The first tw… ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2023, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcohol-taxonomy-finite-or-explain-alcohol-to-me/983172/3 "2023-04-25T15:43:52Z")
There is a finite taxonomy based on what the actual substance is that is being fermented to create the alcohol; the type of grain and yeast determines the type of beer, for example. The number of different alcohols is limited by the number of things you can make it out of. But there’s an unlimited taxonomy based on, how do you say, gimmicky bullshit? There’s no limit on the number of weird things you can do to a barrel of something and give it a name. It will still be beer or wine or (something) at the end of the day, but now it’s a Skokie-style fruited crossgrain (something). Sort of like jewelry - the rock is the rock, but you can decide to start calling it “Chocolate” and say it’s a new kind of diamond. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2023, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcohol-taxonomy-finite-or-explain-alcohol-to-me/983172/4 "2023-04-25T15:47:42Z")
Sub-groupings appear all the time. 20 years ago you never would have heard of “West Coast IPA” or “Hazy” anything. Growers breed new types of hops every year, brewers get bored and “creative.” Then there’s the whole “gimmicky bullshit” **Jimmy\_Chitwood** mentioned, which can be laid at the feet of “mixologists” everywhere. Then there are the micro-distillers who will distill anything they possibly can, just for giggles. Some of the top level categories are ancient. Some are more recent. It would take a book to cover everything, and even then it would be outdated almost immediately. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2023, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcohol-taxonomy-finite-or-explain-alcohol-to-me/983172/5 "2023-04-25T15:55:22Z")
There are indeed labels like AOC or protected designation of origin > **[Appellation d'origine contrôlée](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appellation_d%27origine_contr%C3%B4l%C3%A9e)** > > In France, the appellation d'origine contrôlée (AOC) is a label that identifies an agricultural product whose stages of production and processing are carried out in a defined geographical area – the terroir – and using recognized and traditional know-how. The specificity of an AOC product is determined by the combination of a physical and biological environment with established production techniques transmitted within a human community that, together, give the product its distinctive qualities.... that certify that a bottle of wine, or some other agricultural product, comes from a certain area and is produced using certain methods, so, in theory, if you buy a bottle of, say Châteauneuf-du-Pape you know more or less what to expect. The European “protected designation of origin” designation was created in 1992, for instance: > **[List of PDO products by country](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PDO_products_by_country)** > > This is a list of Protected Designation of Origin (PDO) products by country. Protected Designation of Origin is a Geographical Indication under EU and UK law. Applications can be made both for EU/UK product designation and for other territories. The EU publishes its designations in GI View. > For a limited number of products, the PDO status is registered with regards to a geographical area which comprises (parts of) two countries. The are listed below: > In Belgium, since 2011, the Public Service ... ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2023, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcohol-taxonomy-finite-or-explain-alcohol-to-me/983172/6 "2023-04-25T15:58:05Z")
India allows some liquids to be called “whiskey” that most other countries would call “rum.” “Whiskey” = grain “Rum” = molasses/sugar cane ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2023, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcohol-taxonomy-finite-or-explain-alcohol-to-me/983172/7 "2023-04-25T20:04:37Z")
While known by other names for some time before, **hard seltzers** have only become popular in the last 5 years or so. I guess anything can become hard: hard Alfredo sauce, hard infant formula, hard nondairy creamer. We’re probably due for cannabis-infused alcohol products next. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2023, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcohol-taxonomy-finite-or-explain-alcohol-to-me/983172/8 "2023-04-25T20:09:39Z")
What is the “base” for a hard seltzer? Vodka or something that is alcoholic but unclassified? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2023, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcohol-taxonomy-finite-or-explain-alcohol-to-me/983172/9 "2023-04-25T20:31:11Z")
White Claw seems to use “rum” as a base. They call it “alcohol from cold-brewed sugar.” Of course, all alcohol is ultimately from sugars, but this sounds like they whomp up a batch of sugar liquor, then flavor it with crap and carbonate it. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2023, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcohol-taxonomy-finite-or-explain-alcohol-to-me/983172/10 "2023-04-25T20:41:06Z")
I believe that’s malt liquor, it’s basically an unflavored beer base. They are starting actual liquor based prepackaged mixed drinks in my area but the laws/taxes are weird. ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2023, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcohol-taxonomy-finite-or-explain-alcohol-to-me/983172/11 "2023-04-25T21:28:01Z")
And all that relates to actual differences, before you get to [this kind of thing](https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/0f5/f7a/8609ccef1e7eabfa3ae9712e766f51ec12-duffless-4x3.rhorizontal.w700.jpg), where names become meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2023, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcohol-taxonomy-finite-or-explain-alcohol-to-me/983172/12 "2023-04-25T23:14:22Z")
> [@sitchensis](#): > > I believe that’s malt liquor, it’s basically an unflavored beer base. That’s what a lot of them are, but White Claw specifically says “sugar.” Grain isn’t mentioned, which means it isn’t beer/malt liquor/malt beverage. Of the others, who knows? Most of that stuff **is** just flavored malt liquor. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2023, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcohol-taxonomy-finite-or-explain-alcohol-to-me/983172/13 "2023-04-27T17:09:40Z")
It’s never distilled. It’s a “gluten free grain”. I’d say it’s brewed corn syrup or rice. The also add a small amount of cane sugar for flavor and to put it on their label. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2023, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcohol-taxonomy-finite-or-explain-alcohol-to-me/983172/14 "2023-04-27T17:28:58Z")
It seems like you could create new categories by fermenting in fundamentally different ways. For example: Fermenting in a different type of container. (Sheep’s stomach?) Fermentation by a process not involving yeast. Et c. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2023, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcohol-taxonomy-finite-or-explain-alcohol-to-me/983172/15 "2023-04-27T18:57:05Z")
[Singapore’s Piss Water Beer Works](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVMJcOOFK2U), maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2023, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcohol-taxonomy-finite-or-explain-alcohol-to-me/983172/16 "2023-04-27T22:36:32Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Then there are the micro-distillers who will distill anything they possibly can, just for giggles. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/iIuMLXjKN3Q/maxresdefault.jpg "We DISTILLED PRINGLES into alcohol to prove ChatGPT wrong | Will It Distill?") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIuMLXjKN3Q) ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2023, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcohol-taxonomy-finite-or-explain-alcohol-to-me/983172/17 "2023-04-27T23:19:22Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > What is the “base” for a hard seltzer? Vodka or something that is alcoholic but unclassified? That kind of depends - a lot of them are beer based , White Claw seems to be beer based or not, depending on who is defining it and when and I know some are basically canned vodka cocktails (for example, juice, vodka and seltzer). This is why I can buy some (including White Claw) in the supermarket but others ( High Noon ) must be bought a the liquor store. ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2023, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcohol-taxonomy-finite-or-explain-alcohol-to-me/983172/18 "2023-04-28T00:06:45Z")
I always thought White Claw was seltzer with added alcohol. I dont care for it, although I do like plain seltzer. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2023, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcohol-taxonomy-finite-or-explain-alcohol-to-me/983172/19 "2023-04-28T01:49:45Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > This is why I can buy some (including White Claw) in the supermarket but others ( High Noon ) must be bought a the liquor store. Yeah, so far as I could find, that is correct: High Noon is made with vodka (which is a distillate); White Claw and Truly are made on a fermented/brewed base (whether malt, sugar, or whatnot). Another one made with vodka is Monaco, though most of their products are fruity, heavily sugared drinks, but they do have at least two, I think, strict seltzer + vodka + fruit essence flavorings. For me, the categories of alcohol basically starts with two categories: simple fermentations/brews and then distillates of those fermentations/brews. And then everything branches off from there (though you can have fortifications, like taking something brewed and adding a distillate to it, but you’re still starting with those two categories; same with something like a maceration, where flavoring ingredients are added after or in addition to the distillation process.) I’m struggling to think of an alcoholic drink that I couldn’t classify in these basic categories.