# Is Alcoholism a disease? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 30, 2005, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcoholism-a-disease/310464 "2005-06-30T03:06:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Renob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcoholism-a-disease/310464/21 "2005-06-30T15:42:41Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Piffle. A person who has a compulsion to perform any action is not performing that action voluntarily. No, you can have a strong desire to do something and still refuse to do it. I have a strong desire to eat candy, but I don’t do it for a variety of reasons. You can resist a strong desire. Someone makes the choice whether or not to drink. Someone does not make the choice whether or not to get a disease. > [@](#): > > Making a claim that it is voluntary is simply a way to avoid providing assistance to a person in need by blaming them for their own problems and pretending that it is a matter of will power or personal morality. Wrong again. You can still desire to help people even if you view their actions as voluntary. In fact, it’s vital to accurately label their actions if you desire to help them. If you’re simply telling an alcoholic that they have no power and that they are helpless in the face of alcohol, how is that helping them? If you tell them that, indeed, they can resist the temptation to drink and equip them with strategies to do so, that is much more helpful. > [@Metacom](#): > > Would you then say that lung cancer is not a disease when a smoker gets it (they smoked voluntarily); that black lung disease isn’t a disease (they mined coal voluntarily), and that mesothelioma isn’t a diease (they worked near asbestos voluntarily)? This makes absolutely no sense. You can get diseases from voluntary actions, obviously. Those of us who reject the disease label for alcoholism aren’t saying that, say, cirrhosis of the liver isn’t a disease or that the diseases that come from alcohol abuse aren’t diseases. We are saying that the act of drinking isn’t a disease. Since you think that alcoholism is a disease, using your logic do you then think that working near asbestos is a disease or coal mining is a disease? You see how ridiculous that is? ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcoholism-a-disease/310464/22 "2005-06-30T16:04:46Z")
> [@Renob](#): > > This makes absolutely no sense. Exactly my point, thank you. > [@](#): > > Those of us who reject the disease label for alcoholism aren’t saying that … Look at (and actually read) what I quoted immediately before my comments. **Clothahump** seemed to be saying that the key thing that made alcoholism not a disease was that it resulted from voluntary actions. ---
**Author:** ![Fionn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fionn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fionn)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcoholism-a-disease/310464/23 "2005-06-30T16:08:54Z")
> [@scoob](#): > > i voluntarily started smoking and now have cancer - am i not suffering from a disease? Of course you do-you have cancer. Was your point that smoking is a disease as well? The disease model of alcoholism was useful in steering public opinion away from the moral model, where alcoholism was viewed strictly as a matter of will-power, but it has a lot of flaws. The links between genetics and alcoholism aren’t firm, and it’s difficult to tease out the role of culture in alcoholism. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcoholism-a-disease/310464/24 "2005-06-30T16:20:38Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Neither alcoholism or drug addiction are diseases. > > They are the end result of a voluntary action, and that’s the key - voluntary. Alrighty lets look at some facts: 1. Alcohol smells foul (until one becomes accustomed to it, I assume.) 2. Alcoholic drinks are expensive 3. A large percentage (majority?) of crimes and automobile accidents occur while intoxicated 4. Alcoholic drinks have less flavor (at least wine does) than the original thing they were made from (i.e. grape juice)–and still smell foul. And yet 99.999% of all people in the US (world?) gladly drink it regularly and more importantly, to the point where they do become accustomed to it and actually feel that it is worth shelling out amazing quantities of money for. So, if you want to state that alcoholism is a matter of choice, I’m going to have to ask if you’re with me over on the 0.0001% of the population? I certainly made a choice, but from this vantage I can say that 99.999% of everyone just doesn’t put that much thought into it when they’re teens and by the time things have alrighty turned out okay or gone to hell, you may already be screwed. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcoholism-a-disease/310464/25 "2005-06-30T16:22:02Z")
i.e. -\> e.g. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcoholism-a-disease/310464/26 "2005-06-30T16:26:07Z")
> [@Renob](#): > > No, you can have a strong desire to do something and still refuse to do it. I have a strong desire to eat candy, but I don’t do it for a variety of reasons. You can resist a strong desire. “Strong desire” != “compulsion.” ---
**Author:** ![Renob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcoholism-a-disease/310464/27 "2005-06-30T16:26:52Z")
> [@Sage Rat](#): > > Alrighty lets look at some facts: > > 1. Alcohol smells foul (until one becomes accustomed to it, I assume.) > 2. Alcoholic drinks are expensive > 3. A large percentage (majority?) of crimes and automobile accidents occur while intoxicated > 4. Alcoholic drinks have less flavor (at least wine does) than the original thing they were made from (i.e. grape juice)–and still smell foul. > > And yet 99.999% of all people in the US (world?) gladly drink it regularly and more importantly, to the point where they do become accustomed to it and actually feel that it is worth shelling out amazing quantities of money for. > So, if you want to state that alcoholism is a matter of choice, I’m going to have to ask if you’re with me over on the 0.0001% of the population? I certainly made a choice, but from this vantage I can say that 99.999% of everyone just doesn’t put that much thought into it when they’re teens and by the time things have alrighty turned out okay or gone to hell, you may already be screwed. One, your statistics are flawed. I highly doubt that 99% of Americans drink and I doubt that even less drink it regularly. I also don’t think that a majority of crimes and automobile accidents occur while intoxicated. Please give me a cite on these two statistics. Two, you left out a fifth point: 5) alcohol makes you feel very good. People will put up with a foul tasting drink if it produces a good result. Does this mean they are addicted? Of course not. It means that they have made a trade-off – they have given up their cash and put up with a noxious-tasting liquid in order to get a feeling of euphoria. For some that trade-off causes no problem. For some they have a hard time recognizing that the price they are paying for the euphoria is hurting them. That doesn’t mean they have a disease, though. ---
**Author:** ![Renob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcoholism-a-disease/310464/28 "2005-06-30T16:29:08Z")
> [@andros](#): > > “Strong desire” != “compulsion.” Fine, but that still does not mean that you are forced to do anything. I have many strong desires but I usually resist them. If I don’t resist them I don’t go around trying to escape my personal responsibility by blaming it on a disease. Hell, I have a strong desire to see women naked (as do most men, I would reckon). But if I spend all day looking at porn or in a titty bar, does this mean I have a disease? No, it just means I can’t resist my strong desires, or that I don’t have any reason to resist them. Same with drinking. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcoholism-a-disease/310464/29 "2005-06-30T16:36:49Z")
And yet, we’re not talking about strong desires. We’re talking about [compulsion](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=compulsion). ---
**Author:** ![Boggette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@Boggette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boggette)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcoholism-a-disease/310464/30 "2005-06-30T16:37:29Z")
As an alkie myself (10+ years without), I really don’t care what other people want to call it. I label myself an addict because alcohol is not the only thing I crave. I could as easily get addicted to exercise as I did to booze, overeating, and cigarettes. Is alcoholism a “disease” in and of itself? Don’t know. But it is a convenient term. Dictionary.dom has: 1. A pathological condition of a part, organ, or system of an organism resulting from various causes, such as infection, genetic defect, or environmental stress, and characterized by an identifiable group of signs or symptoms. 2. A condition or tendency, as of society, regarded as abnormal and harmful. 3. Obsolete. Lack of ease; trouble. From this description, I’d say it fits pretty well. Whether or not choosing to consume an item defines “disease” seems to be the point I’m seeing argued. As someone who has quit smoking, quit drinking, and lost 30 of the pounds (with 30 more to go), I know better than to think that I could successfully go back to my old routines without paying the consequences and that’s good enough for me. My friends jokingly call me “the poster child of willpower”, but I would say it’s the opposite. My lack of willpower when it comes to these things causes me to have to go to great lengths to stay away from them. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcoholism-a-disease/310464/31 "2005-06-30T16:39:48Z")
> [@](#): > > No, you can have a strong desire to do something and still refuse to do it. I have a strong desire to eat candy, but I don’t do it for a variety of reasons. You can resist a strong desire. Someone makes the choice whether or not to drink. Someone does not make the choice whether or not to get a disease. Your “strong desire” is not a compulsion. Unless you have suffered a compulsive activity, you are not qualified to declare that it is just a “strong desire” that can be overcome with will power. You are simply moralistically blaming the victim for something that you do not happen to suffer. It makes you feel good (to say nothing of feeling superior), but does nothing to address the issue. (And your adherence to this point in the face of information posted in this thread linking alcoholism (and other drug addictions) to a genetic component indicates a desire to simply deny evidence.) ---
**Author:** ![Renob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcoholism-a-disease/310464/32 "2005-06-30T16:43:41Z")
So compulsion is thusly defined: “An irresistible impulse to act, regardless of the rationality of the motivation.” Sorry, but I reject that anyone takes a drink because of an “irresistible impulse to act.” If it were so irresistible, then why are there so many former alcoholics who don’t drink? People drink because they find pleasure in it. They are not “irresistably motivated.” Unless someone has a gun to your head forcing you to drink, you can always put the bottle down. If you choose not to do that, then you have made a choice. Don’t try to blame it on a “compulsion” or a “disease.” You may need to learn how to control your desires better and you may need some sort of professional help to do that, but let’s not trivialize real diseases like cancer or AIDS by comparing them to people who like to drink a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcoholism-a-disease/310464/33 "2005-06-30T16:49:53Z")
> [@Renob](#): > > One, your statistics are flawed. I highly doubt that 99% of Americans drink and I doubt that even less drink it regularly. Hyperbole. > [@](#): > > I also don’t think that a majority of crimes and automobile accidents occur while intoxicated. Please give me a cite on these two statistics. I didn’t say a majority does, as evidenced by the parantheses and question mark. Though again, hyperbole. > [@](#): > > Two, you left out a fifth point: 5) alcohol makes you feel very good. Only if you ever try it. > [@](#): > > People will put up with a foul tasting drink if it produces a good result. Does this mean they are addicted? I wasn’t talking about addiction, but rather the amount of logic people apply when it comes to something that 99.999%\* of every one else already does. I’m just making a fairly good guess that Clothahump himself did not do a whole lot of thinking when he started drinking (assuming he did) or when most people start smoking, or any other thing that really has no logical reason for being…until such a time as you’ve done it enough that a reason for being comes to exist. Or as I used to say, “Bang your head into a wall enough times and you’ll come to like that too.” Though I had believed that the primary reason most people enjoyed alcohol at first was to help them drop their inhibitions? (As opposed to some sort of euphoria.) Of course, just dropping your inhibitions on your own just means that 1) you’ve saved money, 2) your brain can still function properly–so you can stear yourself out of waking up with the really ugly girl, and 3) it’s actually _you_ having fun! Oh, and you get to drink things that taste better. (Would you pass me that 1993, Coca Cola Classic? Oh no no, not the 94! Awful year, awful.) - Hyperbole 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Fionn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fionn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fionn)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcoholism-a-disease/310464/34 "2005-06-30T16:54:10Z")
> [@Sage Rat](#): > > Alrighty lets look at some facts: > > 1. Alcohol smells foul (until one becomes accustomed to it, I assume.) > 2. Alcoholic drinks are expensive > 3. A large percentage (majority?) of crimes and automobile accidents occur while intoxicated > 4. Alcoholic drinks have less flavor (at least wine does) than the original thing they were made from (i.e. grape juice)–and still smell foul. > > And yet 99.999% of all people in the US (world?) gladly drink it regularly and more importantly, to the point where they do become accustomed to it and actually feel that it is worth shelling out amazing quantities of money for. > So, if you want to state that alcoholism is a matter of choice, I’m going to have to ask if you’re with me over on the 0.0001% of the population? Courtesy of the [National Survey on Drug Use and Health](http://www.drugabusestatistics.samhsa.gov/NHSDA/2k3NSDUH/2k3results.htm#ch3), here are some actual stats about drinking patterns in the United States. Most relevant here: About half of Americans ages 12 and over report being current drinkers, which is defined as having at least one drink in the past 30 days 22.6 percent reported binge drinking in the past 30 days, which is defined as five or more drinks on one occasion. About 6.8 percent report heavy drinking, which is defined as five or more drinks on at least five different days in the past 30 days. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcoholism-a-disease/310464/35 "2005-06-30T16:58:29Z")
I find this subject fascinating. I also, found this essay rather thought provoking. From[the Skepdi’s Dictionary:](http://skepdic.com/sat.html) > [@](#): > > The disease model of alcoholism > > What are the signs of this disease? In addition to craving drink and an inability to stop drinking after one or two drinks, one symptom of this disease is quantity of alcohol consumed. An alcoholic may require rather large amounts of drink before he or she feels a buzz much less feels drunk. If you drink no more than the average American, then you probably do not have this disease. If you drink more than that, then you are probably an alcoholic. The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism defines a moderate drinker as someone who drinks an average of 3 to 14 drinks a week. A heavy drinker has an average of more than two drinks a day. A drink is 12 ounces of beer, one glass of wine or one shot of liquor. (In case you are wondering, if you drink 3 or more drinks a week you are in the minority: only 27% have that many drinks.) > > Another symptom of this disease is when you drink. If you drink when stressed or depressed, lonely or bored, to get motivated or amorous, to test yourself or to feel good, then you are very likely an alcoholic. A better sign, however, is suffering from withdrawal symptoms. If you get nauseous, the cold sweats or the shakes when you don’t drink, you are without doubt an alcoholic. > > One of the unique features of this disease is that the effects of the disease are usually first felt by people other than the one suffering from the disease. For most diseases, the sick person feels bad. If the sick person doesn’t feel bad, nobody else feels bad. If alcoholism is a disease, it must be a mental illness. The mentally ill often deny they are ill and the first identification of a mental illness is often when others notice that the afflicted person is behaving in unconventional, bizarre or self-destructive ways. Like other mental illnesses, there is no blood or urine test for alcoholism. There is no physical marker the healer can look for to identify the disease. All the signs are behavioral. > > Unlike mental illness, however, alcohol abuse is self-inflicted and might better be called brain abuse. and there’s more, very interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcoholism-a-disease/310464/36 "2005-06-30T17:02:16Z")
> [@Fionn](#): > > ages 12 and over report being current drinkers Not a terrible surprise–but still: ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcoholism-a-disease/310464/37 "2005-06-30T17:03:19Z")
> [@MGibson](#): > > That certainly stretches the definition of alcoholic, does it not? > > Marc The way it was described to me by AA people, if you can’t stop once you’ve started, it doesn’t matter if you do it daily or yearly…you’re an alcoholic. (Frankly, my feeling is that alcoholism isn’t all that bad a malady as long as you can keep it down to once a year!) ---
**Author:** ![Fionn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fionn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fionn)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcoholism-a-disease/310464/38 "2005-06-30T17:06:47Z")
Why does that earn a ☹ ? It’s lower than your 99% estimate, usage declines with age, and the majority of drinkers suffer few to no ill effects from their occasional use. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcoholism-a-disease/310464/39 "2005-06-30T17:13:19Z")
No no: ☹ because it’s from age 12. But someone who only drinks at parties is every bit as much someone who has succumbed to societal pressures as a regular drinker–so 50% would be lower than the figure I would be looking for. And also, since we are mostly talking about teens and young teens, really it’s the 15 to 25 yo range that I would be interested in. And of course, teens think in hyperbole–so even though it may only be 50%, if it _sems_ like everyone’s doing it then **everyone’s** doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcoholism-a-disease/310464/40 "2005-06-30T17:22:16Z")
> [@Fionn](#): > > the majority of drinkers suffer few to no ill effects from their occasional use. Again, I’m talking about the amount of _choosing_ that goes into putting alcohol to your lips, not the possible effects of it. Clothahump was saying that drinking is a choice–while I’m stating that for most people, starting drinking is generally **not** –but rather just something that you _do_ at that age. And since I doubt hump made any such decision when he was a kid–that it imight not have become a problem for him could have more to do with his getting lucky than having chosen well. Had he had alcoholic genes, it could have been a whole different story. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcoholism-a-disease/310464.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alcoholism-a-disease/310464.md?page=3)