# Is Alice fey? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [December 23, 2005, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alice-fey/337021 "2005-12-23T22:17:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![rkhughes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea5d25/32.png) [@rkhughes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rkhughes)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alice-fey/337021/1 "2005-12-23T22:17:46Z")
Regarding “Alice in Wonderland” on the MMPI and CPI: I thought that Lewis Carroll’s book was “Through the Looking Glass”. Is there, in fact, a book called “Alice in Wonderland” and, if not, wouldn’t claiming that you had read it indicate that you don’t actually know much about literature at all, or are simply dishonest or pompous? Ok, ok, I felt obligated to answer at least part of my own question: the original book was called “Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland” (the second was “Through the Looking Glass”.) Even so, you would think that they would bother to get the title right in the MMPI/CPI… If I took this test, I woudn’t know how to answer, since the title isn’t right. (Possibly indicating that I’m really nit-picky, I guess, which could work for or against me with an employer…) * * * Link to Column: [What does _Alice in Wonderland_ have to do with psychological testing?"](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/051223.html) ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alice-fey/337021/2 "2005-12-23T22:33:52Z")
It’s commonly called _Alice in Wonderland_ just as it’s commonly called _Moby Dick_ instead of _Moby-dick, or, The Whale_. Presumably the Disney movie had something to do with it. (As Harvey Fierstein put it, “I later realized that Alice Faye was pig Latin for ‘phallus.’”) ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alice-fey/337021/3 "2005-12-23T22:56:28Z")
Welcome to the boards, **rkhughes**. Looking at your postcount, I’m intrigued - you ponied up all the dough to become a member just for this question / nitpick? If so, you’re among friends… ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alice-fey/337021/4 "2005-12-23T23:44:15Z")
“Alice’s Adventures Under Ground” was a one-of-a-kind manuscript presented to Alice Pleasance Liddell. “Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland” was an expanded form, published as a book. It is sometimes called “Alice in Wonderland”, but that is not its correct name. “Through the Looking-Glass and what Alice found there” was a sequel. It is sometimes called “Through the Looking-Glass” or “Alice Through the Looking-Glass”. Furthermore, some people call the _two_ books, “Alice in Wonderland”, and often mix up episodes from the two books. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alice-fey/337021/5 "2005-12-23T23:46:31Z")
. . . I dunno, but is Monte Blue? (just wanted to compliment your thread title!) ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2005, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alice-fey/337021/6 "2005-12-24T00:56:09Z")
Always wanted to do this: [Link](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/051223.html) ---
**Author:** ![Uvula\_Donor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e19adc/32.png) [@Uvula\_Donor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uvula_Donor)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2005, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alice-fey/337021/7 "2005-12-24T03:00:29Z")
> [@John W. Kennedy](#): > > “Alice’s Adventures Under Ground” was a one-of-a-kind manuscript presented to Alice Pleasance Liddell. > > “Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland” was an expanded form, published as a book. It is sometimes called “Alice in Wonderland”, but that is not its correct name. > > “Through the Looking-Glass and what Alice found there” was a sequel. It is sometimes called “Through the Looking-Glass” or “Alice Through the Looking-Glass”. > > Furthermore, some people call the _two_ books, “Alice in Wonderland”, and often mix up episodes from the two books. \*’. . . The name of the song is called “Haddocks’ Eyes”.’ `Oh, that’s the name of the song, is it?’ Alice said, trying to feel interested. `No, you don't understand,' the Knight said, looking a little vexed. `That’s what the name is called. The name really is “The Aged Aged Man”.’ `Then I ought to have said “That’s what the song is called”?’ Alice corrected herself. `No, you oughtn’t: that’s quite another thing! The song is called “Ways and Means”: but that’s only what it’s called, you know!’ `Well, what is the song, then?’ said Alice, who was by this time completely bewildered. `I was coming to that,' the Knight said. `The song really is “A-sitting On a Gate”: and the tune’s my own invention.’ \* ---
**Author:** ![Nia1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@Nia1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nia1)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2005, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alice-fey/337021/8 "2005-12-24T10:26:43Z")
I studied the MMPI(2) for a while as a reckless pursuit of random knowledge. It is truly amazing what some conclusions may be reached by your responses to many of the questions. For instance, if you indicate that you like to cook, that like the Alice question of yore indicates a level of femininity (Yes, stereotypes abound in the test) but what you may not know is that it also an indicator of a potential for alcoholism! Interestingly enough, so is thinking that you might enjoy being a forest ranger. However that question has no bearing on how butch or femme you are. Worse yet, many questions will adversely affect your “score” no matter how you answer them. Oh, and not answering questions isn’t a good idea either. A fellow by the name of [James Rogers Brown](http://www.thesociologycenter.com/EighthCity/OrgCrime04.html) put it quite eloquently in evaluating the statement: “Once in a while I think of things too bad to talk about.” by summing it up as: “Are you a maladjusted paranoid college student with psychasthenia, schizophrenia and post traumatic stress disorder or are you lying?” Oh, and no, I’m not a psych\* and yes, I’ve read countless times how “inappropriate” it is for “untrained” persons to attempt to administer the MMPI or evaluate its results. That said, it may have its legitimate uses given many limitations to its usefulness (No matter how many doctorates may be awarded in trying to develop new things to measure from the same test) but I strongly disagree with the idea of using it for employment screening and would flat out refuse to participate as a condition for being hired with a company (Even if I know how to score completely “within normal limits” on umpteen different scales) ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2005, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alice-fey/337021/9 "2005-12-24T17:40:46Z")
Wow, Cecil’s column is the first time I’ve heard any suggestion of a connection between liking _Alice_ and one’s masculinity/femininity. I would have thought that what an affinity for _Alice_ demonstrated about a person was their logical or mathematical sort of mind. The _Alice_ books are particularly popular among mathematical types. Lewis Carroll himself was a mathematician specializing in logic, and the kind of sense of humor found in his work is the kind that seems to particularly appeal to mathematicians. There seems to be an unwritten rule that _every_ math book must contain at least one reference to _Alice_. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2005, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alice-fey/337021/10 "2005-12-24T20:28:22Z")
Some commonsense things are easy to miss when you look at them too _logically_. It’s a book where the lead character is a _girl_. Duh. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2005, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alice-fey/337021/11 "2005-12-25T07:34:20Z")
> [@Thudlow Boink](#): > > I would have thought that what an affinity for _Alice_ demonstrated about a person was their logical or mathematical sort of mind. The _Alice_ books are particularly popular among mathematical types. Lewis Carroll himself was a mathematician specializing in logic, and the kind of sense of humor found in his work is the kind that seems to particularly appeal to mathematicians. There seems to be an unwritten rule that _every_ math book must contain at least one reference to _Alice_. And how. I didn’t think much one way or another about Alice in Wonderland, till I read [The Annotated Alice](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0393048470/qid=1135495855/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-7288681-0462328?s=books&v=glance&n=283155), a great book that highlights all the cool references and puzzles Lewis Carroll included in the book. Actually, the one thing I do remember about reading Alice in Wonderland as a child was how creepy the book felt, and how none of the people in it are very nice. (There’s that duchess who abuses her baby…who then turns into a pig.) Even the Tenielle (sp?) drawings make Alice look amazingly unpleasant. I still liked it well enough because it was interesting and, well, creepy, but I can’t say I found the characters to be too sympathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2005, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alice-fey/337021/12 "2005-12-25T17:48:27Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Cecil Adams:_ > > To be precise, you’re supposed to respond true or false to some variant of the statement “I enjoyed reading Alice in Wonderland.” How should one answer if they’ve never read the book? ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2005, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alice-fey/337021/13 "2005-12-25T21:14:29Z")
My experience was like **Rodgers01** ’s. I saw the Disney cartoon, read the Classics Illustrated version. Then in eighth grade I tried to read the book. It was too strange and I didn’t like the illustrations, either, so I gave up. When I was in college I finally got a copy of “The Annotated Alice”. I guess a lot more people had read it when the question was posed. I once took a test that asked if I would agree or disagree with a lot of statements, one of which was “I would like to ride in a posse” or something similar. I guess that another one of those experimental questions. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-alice-fey/337021/14 "2005-12-26T20:58:08Z")
> [@Patty O'Furniture](#): > > How should one answer if they’ve never read the book? He should say he continues to beat his wife.