# Is America a Fascist Country? Are we the next Egypt? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 1, 2011, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-a-fascist-country-are-we-the-next-egypt/569835 "2011-02-01T23:06:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-a-fascist-country-are-we-the-next-egypt/569835/41 "2011-02-02T12:59:34Z")
Fascist? Bah. I won’t believe it until the US decides to invade Ethiopia. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-a-fascist-country-are-we-the-next-egypt/569835/42 "2011-02-02T13:29:47Z")
> [@nilum](#): > > When the leaders of this country are picked by how much money they can throw at a campaign and what corporations are endorsing them, how can we have anything _but_ fascism in this country. I suggest you read _Freakonomics_. He has an interesting discussion on the lack of correlation between getting elected, and the amount of money spent on campaigning. Or [this](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/27/us/politics/27money.html), for that matter. > [@](#): > > We’re also continually hearing from our own government about how well the Chinese model works, if it’s not the Internet infrastructure, it’s their economy. Of course there is no mention about poor living conditions, pollution, and human rights violations in the what they espouse. Could you please give a few quotes of US officials saying that the Chinese economic model works better than ours? If you are thinking of the Harry Reid quote recently, he did not say that the Chinese economic model worked better than ours. And I have heard a great deal about human rights violations and how much the Chinese pollute. > [@](#): > > The problem is most of the people on this message board are not poor and probably have stock in the corrupt system. It works for them. It protects their interests. Well, that’s the point - a large majority of folks in the US are not poor. Something like 85% of us, in fact. So what you claim as a drawback of the US model is, in fact, one of our great strengths. As mentioned, I suspect you have no concrete definition of “fascist” in any sense you can explain. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-a-fascist-country-are-we-the-next-egypt/569835/43 "2011-02-02T13:45:41Z")
[QUOTE=nilum] We’re also continually hearing from our own government about how well the Chinese model works, if it’s not the Internet infrastructure, it’s their economy. [/QUOTE] I have read a few things by Thomas Friedman about this, and i don’t think anyone doubts that China’s economy is “working” in the sense that it is growing. But I don’t recall a lot of admiration for the “Chinese model” coming from US officials. Can you provide a citation or two? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-a-fascist-country-are-we-the-next-egypt/569835/44 "2011-02-02T15:07:06Z")
> [@wheresmymind](#): > > As RickJay mentioned, I do not think corporatism in this context means what you think it means. Since I don’t expect **nilum** to look this up on his own… [Cite](http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/corporatism.htm) > [@](#): > > In the last half of the 19th century people of the working class in Europe were beginning to show interest in the ideas of socialism and syndicalism. Some members of the intelligentsia, particularly the Catholic intelligentsia, decided to formulate an alternative to socialism which would emphasize social justice without the radical solution of the abolition of private property. The result was called Corporatism. The name had nothing to do with the notion of a business corporation except that both words are derived from the Latin word for body, corpus. > > The basic idea of corporatism is that the society and economy of a country should be organized into major interest groups (sometimes called corporations) and representatives of those interest groups settle any problems through negotiation and joint agreement. In contrast to a market economy which operates through competition a corporate economic works through collective bargaining. The American president Lyndon Johnson had a favorite phrase that reflected the spirit of corporatism. He would gather the parties to some dispute and say, “Let us reason together.” The author does argue that the U.S. was corporatist under FDR, but not fascist. He feels is it possible to be corporatist without being fascist. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-a-fascist-country-are-we-the-next-egypt/569835/45 "2011-02-02T15:41:16Z")
If America is the next Egypt, I get to be Pharaoh! The Mississippi will do for a Nile. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-a-fascist-country-are-we-the-next-egypt/569835/46 "2011-02-02T16:04:30Z")
> [@nilum](#): > > The problem is most of the people on this message board are not poor and probably have stock in the corrupt system. I’ve been trying, but my broker can’t find it on any of the exchanges. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-a-fascist-country-are-we-the-next-egypt/569835/47 "2011-02-02T16:10:34Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > If America is the next Egypt, I get to be Pharaoh! The Mississippi will do for a Nile. Yeah, sounds great until you have to marry your sister. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-a-fascist-country-are-we-the-next-egypt/569835/48 "2011-02-02T16:17:34Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Yes, I think that the US is definitely fascist (with or without capitalization…_snort_). And yes, we are the next Egypt. I’ve heard that Obama wants to start building his tomb sometime next year. It’s going to be VERY large and sort of, well, pyramidally shaped, interestingly enough. We were just saying that since most of the opposition to Mubark seems to be due to unemployment and high prices, what he should’ve done is commissioned a new pyramid. It would’ve put a lot of Egyptians to work, would’ve helped tourism and pyramids are cool. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-a-fascist-country-are-we-the-next-egypt/569835/49 "2011-02-02T16:38:19Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > We were just saying that since most of the opposition to Mubark seems to be due to unemployment and high prices, what he should’ve done is commissioned a new pyramid. It would’ve put a lot of Egyptians to work, would’ve helped tourism and pyramids are cool. Egads, we _are_ the [next Egypt](http://www.visitingdc.com/images/luxor-hotel-address.jpg)! ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-a-fascist-country-are-we-the-next-egypt/569835/50 "2011-02-02T16:49:17Z")
> [@](#): > > Fitts explains how every dollar of debt issued to service every war, building project, and government program since the American Revolution up to around 2 years ago - around $12 trillion - has been doubled again in just the last 18 months alone with the bank bailouts. “We’re literally witnessing the leveraged buyout of a country and that’s why I call it a financial coup d’état, and that’s what the bailout is for,” states Fitts. The Bank Bail-out was a) revenue neutral over the long-term and b) didn’t cost anything remotely vaguely close to 12 trillion dollars even in the short term. Also the 12 trillion dollars is what the debt stood at 18ish months ago, thats certainly not the same thing as the total debt ever issued by the US equaling 12 trillion. Also running up large deficts is the opposite of “Massive amounts of financial capital have been sucked out the United States and moved abroad, explains Fitts”. When the US borrows money from other countries, they’re sending their capital here. Also I’m not sure why I’m bothering examining this, since its obvious nut-jobbery. The only thing I learned from that summary was that Bush I did a really crappy job appointing a Assistant Housing secretary. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-a-fascist-country-are-we-the-next-egypt/569835/51 "2011-02-02T17:07:18Z")
> [@nilum](#): > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5kEYF1FcEU](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5kEYF1FcEU) > > This is _Former Assistant Secretary of Housing under George H.W. Bush Catherine Austin Fitts_ talking about the current economic situation. Who? Sorry, I have to ask, simply because you’re talking as if this is a person of major importance and prominence, whose conjectures deserve our immediate and total respect. I’ve never heard of this person, and I’d wager 98% of the SDMB regulars haven’t either. Why is her take supposed to be gospel? Does George H.W. Bush himself think the US is a fascist state, or that a revolution is looming? No- so, why not listen to HIM, rather than to one of his minor assistants? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-a-fascist-country-are-we-the-next-egypt/569835/52 "2011-02-02T17:08:29Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Who? Former administration member, current 9/11 Troofer. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-a-fascist-country-are-we-the-next-egypt/569835/53 "2011-02-02T17:35:12Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That’s true […] and no matter what one former cabinet official says. Pardon, one former assistant to a former cabinet official. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-a-fascist-country-are-we-the-next-egypt/569835/54 "2011-02-02T19:37:54Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > If America is the next Egypt, I get to be Pharaoh! The Mississippi will do for a Nile. The problem with the Mississippi valley is there aren’t enough rocks for proper pyramids. This is why the [Mound Builders](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mound_builder_%28people%29) instead built, you know, mounds. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-a-fascist-country-are-we-the-next-egypt/569835/55 "2011-02-02T20:44:49Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > The problem with the Mississippi valley is there aren’t enough rocks for proper pyramids. This is why the [Mound Builders](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mound_builder_%28people%29) instead built, you know, mounds. Don’t be silly. Our modern, fascist pyramids are built out of steel and concrete. And our trains, of course, will run on time! ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-a-fascist-country-are-we-the-next-egypt/569835/56 "2011-02-02T20:48:30Z")
Trains? We don’t need no stinkin’ trains! We have to use our excess jobless population in some way! It’s all part of the plot to get rid of the poor and the jobless through starvation or ‘other means’. As long as Hittite’s just leave us alone for a while… -XT ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-a-fascist-country-are-we-the-next-egypt/569835/57 "2011-02-02T21:02:41Z")
> [@nilum](#): > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5kEYF1FcEU](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5kEYF1FcEU) > > I know this interview was conducted by prison planet (no one likes that place around here), but Alex Jones doesn’t make any interjections. This is _Former Assistant Secretary of Housing under George H.W. Bush Catherine Austin Fitts_ talking about the current economic situation. > > I found it very interesting, though most of what she said is nothing new to me. > > Do you guys see an uprising happening in the US similar to what happened in Egypt? Is the _Internet Kill Switch_ bill a sign that the US fears the same thing happening? > > What side would you be on if there was an uprising? I clicked on the link. I listened for several minutes, got bored, noticed how long it would be, and unclicked. As far as an uprising is concerned, as long as the United States retains a democratic government I would certainly not join an uprising. An uprising on the left would be like the black ghetto riots, and student disturbances during the middle 1960s to early 1970s. It would not have popular support. There would be a right wing backlash, just like there was back then. If there was an uprising on the right I would enthusiastically fight it, because I hate the teabaggers and everything they stand for. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-a-fascist-country-are-we-the-next-egypt/569835/58 "2011-02-02T21:21:05Z")
As far as the United States being a “fascist country,” that is silly hyperbole. There is nothing equivalent to the black shirts or the brown shirts. There is robust political debate. Those who publically condemn President Obama, or the government are cheered, not imprisoned. Those who condemn the rich and the business community will be jeered, because most Americans like and respect rich people, but again they are not arrested and punished. The United States is a representative democracy where the political center is to the right of where it is in Europe and the British Commonwealth. Fascism is unlikely in the United States because the American people are too individualistic. What is possible is a partial reversion to the status quo of the last quarter of the nineteenth century. This is the period of time between the end of Reconstruction and the beginning of the Reform Era. Back then there was nothing equivalent of Social Security, Medicare, unemployment compensation, minimum wage legislation, or income taxes. Government intervention in the economy was limited to tariffs, business subsidies, and the violent suppression of trade union activity. Blacks were reduced to second class citizenship and subdued by the terrorism of the Klu Klux Klan. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-a-fascist-country-are-we-the-next-egypt/569835/59 "2011-02-02T21:28:47Z")
I don’t think even that is possible these days. I just can’t see the US ever going back to the days where a large part of the governments monetary needs are able to be met through tariffs and import costs, because I can’t see Americans really wanting to give up the benefits they derive from government services. While a lot of people want to cut something from the budget somewhere, it’s all about cutting what YOU use or think is important, not cutting what I use or think important. I also can’t see the US going back to the days where blacks were treated as less than second class citizens (and certainly not back to slavery)…we, as a people, are past that now. This isn’t to say that everything is perfect, but we stepped across that fence decades ago and I don’t believe there is any going back…not unless the country changes in some fundamental and drastic way. For one thing, can you see minorities meekly going back to being treated as second class citizens? To just taking whatever society decides to do to them? I can’t. I can’t see most ‘white’ Americans playing along either, which means it would be some minority of reactionary racist types…which probably wouldn’t end well for them, unless they managed to get a hell of a lot of their buddies into positions of power at the local, state, federal and military levels. :dubious: Other than that, though, I agree with your post completely…I think it was well said, FWIW. -XT ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-a-fascist-country-are-we-the-next-egypt/569835/60 "2011-02-02T21:40:54Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > If there was a revolution in America, I’d probably be on the side that said “Fuck this, I’m moving to Canada.” If there was a revolution in the States, you might find it more difficult than expected to move to Canada, especially after they already took in a couple millions of refugees. You might be welcomed from behind barbed wire by nice mounties with loaded automatic guns . [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-a-fascist-country-are-we-the-next-egypt/569835.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-a-fascist-country-are-we-the-next-egypt/569835.md?page=4)