# Is America Cruel? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 11, 2008, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-cruel/476654 "2008-12-11T01:38:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-cruel/476654/1 "2008-12-11T01:38:18Z")
We have- [ul] [li]Guantonimo Bay[/li][li]A huge # of Americans in prison/jail[/li][li] **Very** long prison sentences.[/li][li]Seemingly ever-reducing rights[/li][li]Too damn much war, too damn often[/li][/ul] Are we cruel, as a Government, as a People, as a Nation? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-cruel/476654/2 "2008-12-11T02:21:14Z")
Are Ugandan people cruel because of their current struggles? What about Sudan? Or China? Or, dare I say, Canada? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-cruel/476654/3 "2008-12-11T02:26:40Z")
Yes. ---
**Author:** ![kellner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c2a13f/32.png) [@kellner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellner)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-cruel/476654/4 "2008-12-11T03:06:30Z")
Often it seems to me that many Americans consider harming those who deserve it a value in itself. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-cruel/476654/5 "2008-12-11T03:15:19Z")
You know, every time someone starts in on how evil America is and how bad we are, all I can do is pause consider how stark raving ignorant that person is of the larger world. Otherwise I’d be forced to beat them around the brain stem with their lack of knowledge of the rest of the world and the entirity of human history. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-cruel/476654/6 "2008-12-11T03:20:02Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > You know, every time someone starts in on how evil America is and how bad we are, all I can do is pause consider how stark raving ignorant that person is of the larger world. Otherwise I’d be forced to beat them around the brain stem with their lack of knowledge of the rest of the world and the entirity of human history. This was my point in mentioning other countries, only better put. That, and the people aren’t cruel when their government is bad. I’ve lived in China and people there aren’t cruel, even if the government tortures and executes people who don’t remotely deserve it. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-cruel/476654/7 "2008-12-11T03:20:46Z")
I don’t think that we execute near enough people so keeping people in prison for a very long time can be considered cruel. However, any mistreatment pales in comparison to Japan (yes Japan) during WWII. My grandfather was brought home at 90 lbs at 6’3’’ from a Japanese concentration camp at the end of WWII and died from the lasting injuries at the age of 55. Their torture was cruel yet we forgave them. The Germans were lightweights in comparison unless you were a Jew or a Gypsy. I don’t doubt that the U.S. is cruel to some people but, when you put it in an historical context, it is positively mild. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-cruel/476654/8 "2008-12-11T03:32:01Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > You know, every time someone starts in on how evil America is and how bad we are, all I can do is pause consider how stark raving ignorant that person is of the larger world. Otherwise I’d be forced to beat them around the brain stem with their lack of knowledge of the rest of the world and the entirity of human history. I hate to get all religious but Amen to your comments. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-cruel/476654/9 "2008-12-11T03:33:23Z")
Not really. There are definitely some bad things being done, but the US is far less cruel than many other countries, no matter how you define it. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-cruel/476654/10 "2008-12-11T03:35:17Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Are we cruel, as a Government, as a People, as a Nation? No to all. ---
**Author:** ![JaneSaintClair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JaneSaintClair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneSaintClair)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-cruel/476654/11 "2008-12-11T04:01:41Z")
I just finished this great book called _Badlands_, which is a travelogue of a writer who visits all of the so-called-axis of evil type countries and gives them a rating of “badness.” He goes to Cuba, Albania, Afghanistan, North Korea, Libya, Saudi Arabia and a few others. After reading the book, I concur with his conclusion: many (although not all) of the countries he visited are not quite so bad. And in fact, when you compare some of them to the US, we meet the definition. It really opened my eyes to some of the cruel things that the US does, while at the same time accusing other countries of being the axis of evil. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-cruel/476654/12 "2008-12-11T04:16:43Z")
I’m pretty comfortable in the knowledge that with respect to many of the difficult tasks we’ve undertaken, time honored, higher ideals have been the driving force with far greater desires at work than cruelty for cruelty’s sake. As others have mentioned, this is certainly the case as we see real cruelty elsewhere on a sometimes unimaginable scale and are collectively apalled by it. As we move toward negating an evil or rehabilitating an immoral force we may undertake actions that could by themself be deemed cruel, but our intent is to replace them with an eventual better surrounding for all involved. No, we’re not cruel. Sometimes a harsh reality is the only way to recovery but many individuals and countries are themselves responsible for the difficulties they find themselves in, having sacrificed extending even the most basic rights to others en route. Actions will have repercussions. This is not to say there aren’t specific incidents, campaigns and individuals that have undertaken less than commendable courses of action. But they are hardly emblematic of what we stand for and find dear. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-cruel/476654/13 "2008-12-11T05:28:58Z")
We have lots of people serving long sentences because we have a lot of crime. Guantanomo, dimnishing civil liberties, and the current military adventure can be laid at the feet of Shrub. I think Guantanomo is out of the “semi-permanent holding cell” business in the next two years, if it takes that long. You want cruel? China bills the family for the cost of the bullet used to execute a prisoner. That’s cold. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-cruel/476654/14 "2008-12-11T06:12:16Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > You want cruel? China bills the family for the cost of the bullet used to execute a prisoner. That’s cold. Why do I not believe that the US don’t do that? ---
**Author:** ![seodoa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@seodoa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seodoa)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-cruel/476654/15 "2008-12-11T06:31:33Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Why do I not believe that the US don’t do that? I don’t know why. The [state pays](http://www.law.columbia.edu/law_school/communications/reports/summer06/capitalpunish) for the [cost of execution](http://www.amnestyusa.org/death-penalty/death-penalty-facts/death-penalty-cost/page.do?id=1101084). As both of these sources indicate, this is apparently at the cost of other parts of the justice system. ---
**Author:** ![Henrichek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@Henrichek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henrichek)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-cruel/476654/16 "2008-12-11T07:06:36Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > You want cruel? China bills the family for the cost of the bullet used to execute a prisoner. That’s cold. Cite? I’ve heard this told before, but with a quick googling I didn’t find any reference that this is still being done. Wikipedia mentions that they collected a bullet fee in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-cruel/476654/17 "2008-12-11T09:26:59Z")
> [@JaneSaintClair](#): > > I just finished this great book called _Badlands_, which is a travelogue of a writer who visits all of the so-called-axis of evil type countries and gives them a rating of “badness.” He goes to Cuba, Albania, Afghanistan, North Korea, Libya, Saudi Arabia and a few others. > > After reading the book, I concur with his conclusion: many (although not all) of the countries he visited are not quite so bad. And in fact, when you compare some of them to the US, we meet the definition. > > It really opened my eyes to some of the cruel things that the US does, while at the same time accusing other countries of being the axis of evil. Boy, I wonder how many Saudi Arabian or Afghan women he interviewed, or peasants starving in North Korea, or anyone in Cuba trying to make a living. I mean, kudos to that author for doing more than most people do, but there’s a reason why no one is in a big hurry to move to North Korea. The big difference between us and them? If you don’t like it HERE, you can leave. ---
**Author:** ![seodoa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@seodoa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seodoa)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-cruel/476654/18 "2008-12-11T09:39:58Z")
> [@Henrichek](#): > > Cite? > > I’ve heard this told before, but with a quick googling I didn’t find any reference that this is still being done. Wikipedia mentions that they collected a bullet fee in the past. I agree. I, too, would like a cite. Wikipedia’s [source](http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/shooting.html) for that little fact hardly imparts confidence. ETA: re: OP, American people, in general, are fine folk. The government and its foreign policies, however, could use some reworking, for sure. That could be said about plenty of countries, sure, but the US kind of sticks out like a sore thumb, doesn’t it. ---
**Author:** ![footballisplayedwithyourfeet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9f8e36/32.png) [@footballisplayedwithyourfeet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/footballisplayedwithyourfeet)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-cruel/476654/19 "2008-12-11T09:45:24Z")
I’m not judging America one way or the other (cruel or not cruel), but surely the countries you should be using in comparison are other developed democratic countries that value individual rights. If you compare the US to the Afghanistan’s and Iran’s of the world, you are almost implying what crowd the US belongs to. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-cruel/476654/20 "2008-12-11T10:25:53Z")
Good point - surely a better comparison would be between the US and Europe/Australia? On that basis I think the US should probably keep its nose out of a lot of countries affairs and stop being so hypocritical (democracy for us, CIA-sponsored military juntas for them), but calling it cruel is a bit of a stretch. Pragmatic and self-interested to the point of ruthlessness, maybe, but not cruel. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-cruel/476654.md?page=2)