# Is America or Europe More Racist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 27, 2015, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-or-europe-more-racist/726293 "2015-07-27T03:40:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-or-europe-more-racist/726293/21 "2015-07-27T16:16:25Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > another point: no state or federal parliamentary body in the US has neo-nazis (or for that matter, communists) sitting in them; Europe has that all over. That’s more a result of your fucked up two party political system not being very representative. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-or-europe-more-racist/726293/22 "2015-07-27T16:16:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Is America or Europe More Racist? I don’t know how one would judge ‘More Racist’. I think that the US and Europe look at race in different ways, and that they are racists and bigoted in different ways because of that. And, of course, the US is huge, with different regions and states and the attitudes of Americans is not exactly across the board and in lock step coast to coast, while Europe is composed a many different countries, and attitudes vary widely between them, so it makes it really difficult to actually talk about who is ‘More Racist’, especially if you don’t define what you mean there. More overtly racist? Systematically racists? What does ‘More Racist’ even mean so you could judge the relative countries?? Broad brush, I think the US has a very simplistic view on race, as noted in our census where we lump pretty much everyone into a few ‘race’ categories. If you have dark skin, you are ‘black’, and that’s that. It’s all about the visual and overt racial traits. In Europe, I think, it’s more about cultural assimilation. It doesn’t matter (as much) what you look like, it’s whether or not you walk, talk, eat, drink and sound like \. If you do, then I think you are accepted more in some European countries than you are in the US where the gross physical features factors in no matter how assimilated you are. Of course, as noted, this is painting with a ridiculously broad brush both in the US and in Europe, since attitudes vary widely, but to me this simplistic and broad brush is a good general guide to the differences in attitude about race and racism between the US and Europe. > [@](#): > > And last; we didn’t carry out pogroms or the Holocaust; or countless other ethnic cleansing in recent history. Not as much, no, though as you noted in your next sentence there was what we did to the native Americans. Some of those old hatreds and feuds did come here and you could see that flair up from time to time in the US, but nothing like back in the old world. As I said, we have a much more simplistic view of race and ethnicity than much of Europe does. If you are an American and Caucasian and you’ve basically assimilated into the American melting pot, it doesn’t really matter if your ancestors were German, French, British, Scandinavian or from Eastern Europe…you will fit in if you want to. By and large Americans don’t even think about different types of ‘white’ people except maybe as some of interesting color a person has. White is white. By the same token, doesn’t matter if your ancestors came from Norther Africa, the Sub Sahara, Eastern, Western or Southern African…black is black. Cultural assimilation is the only means by which a black man or woman can become even quasi accepted in the US, and even then it’s not full out acceptance across the board (I’m of course painting with a ridiculous broad brush again). Same goes for Asian peoples…doesn’t matter which country you come from or what ‘race’ or culture your ancestors are from, we have a very simplistic view of all of that which pretty much steam rolls the subtleties or nuances. Europe, on the other hand, has a much more nuanced view on race and culture, and so has a lot more gradation in racism that goes beyond how Americans think of it. White isn’t a broad category in Europe, and there is prejudice in Europe that would confuse some Americans since, to us they would all be ‘white’. Same goes for black and Asian peoples…where you came from specifically and your culture makes a difference in Europe. And cultural assimilation is very key in a lot of European countries…fully assimilate and a lot of the racism goes away, or at least goes more into the background. > [@](#): > > What happened with the aboriginals wasn’t too different from how ethnic Russians went from Kievan Rus to Vladivostok, so I reject the attempt to call the fate of the American aborginals a “genocide.” Because this is what the Russians and other Europeans did to their aboriginal peoples that means it’s not genocide??? That’s a load of horseshit. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-or-europe-more-racist/726293/23 "2015-07-27T16:19:23Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > another point: no state or federal parliamentary body in the US has neo-nazis (or for that matter, communists) sitting in them; Europe has that all over. On the flip side, I rather doubt any such body in Europe had a KKK member, but for a time we certainly had them in the US. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-or-europe-more-racist/726293/24 "2015-07-27T16:23:49Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > On the flip side, I rather doubt any such body in Europe had a KKK member, but for a time we certainly had them in the US. Mostly because of our 2 party system. If we had a system like in some European countries we’d certainly have KKK members, Neo-Nazis and Communists in our government as well. The 2 party system pretty much pushes out most of the fringe parties and doesn’t really incorporate them into the big tent party system, since they represent relatively few voters and since most people don’t want to ‘waste’ their vote on someone who has no chance of getting elected, even if they do agree with some or even most of what the 3rd party candidate or party is saying. ETA: The fact that we don’t have KKK or Neo-Nazi parties with elected officials in our government has nothing to do with who is more or less racist, it’s just a function of how our system works as opposed to many European political systems. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-or-europe-more-racist/726293/25 "2015-07-27T16:30:41Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > On the flip side, I rather doubt any such body in Europe had a KKK member, but for a time we certainly had them in the US. Like Bob Byrd, Democrat. Longest-serving member of Congress to serve in both houses. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-or-europe-more-racist/726293/26 "2015-07-27T16:36:45Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I seem to recall at least one guy who notoriously managed to draw a number of racial lines among this uniform sea of “white”. Dour sort of fellow, no sense of humour, kind of screechy, name’s on the tip of my tongue, rhymes with “butler”… … Hutler? ---
**Author:** ![dudonarrival](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@dudonarrival](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dudonarrival)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-or-europe-more-racist/726293/27 "2015-07-27T22:41:22Z")
With the current Jew engineered non-white re-colonization of Europe and America and considering the fact that the white race is just 11% of the worlds population some sucker better start being rascist pretty quick ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-or-europe-more-racist/726293/28 "2015-07-27T23:01:32Z")
Here we go. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-or-europe-more-racist/726293/29 "2015-07-27T23:34:04Z")
Mr. Redenbacher, how d’ya do? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-or-europe-more-racist/726293/30 "2015-07-28T00:41:04Z")
> [@dudonarrival](#): > > With the current Jew engineered non-white re-colonization of Europe and America and considering the fact that the white race is just 11% of the worlds population some sucker better start being rascist pretty quick And I am sure that you are willing to step up to the challenge. Of course, your whole point is nonsense. (The 11% factoid might be correct, but the rest of your statement about engineering and colonization is just silly.) ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-or-europe-more-racist/726293/31 "2015-07-28T00:50:21Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > And I am sure that you are willing to step up to the challenge. > > Of course, your whole point is nonsense. (The 11% factoid might be correct, but the rest of your statement about engineering and colonization is just silly.) Naw, it’s StormFront bullshit (if you Google ‘what percentage of the world’s population is white’, in fact, a link to StormFront spouting the 11% thingy, which I refuse to post, is the top link) and hinges on what you consider ‘white’. Currently, Europe makes up 11% of the worlds population, so my guess is that the StormFront types think that means only 11% are ‘white’, but the actual percentage of Caucasians is more like 27% (according to [Snopes.com](http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/populate.asp), though a quick Google seems to put it at around there regardless) and isn’t really declining at all. Of course, the whole idea of races, let alone a ‘white’ race is pretty much horseshit in any case, but what can one expect? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-or-europe-more-racist/726293/32 "2015-07-28T01:03:02Z")
Thanks for the info. I was not much interested in spending time looking it up–and really don’t care about the answer, although it is always good to have factoids be factual. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-or-europe-more-racist/726293/33 "2015-07-28T01:12:43Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Thanks for the info. I was not much interested in spending time looking it up–and really don’t care about the answer, although it is always good to have factoids be factual. 🙂 Death by a thousand cuts. If you confront these sorts on the little shit then it shows a patter of horseshit that undercuts their narrative. Of course, I’m sure that the counter argument will be to argue who composes the ‘white race’, and that most Americans won’t fit into that mold, being mongrels from the true source in Europe (same with Canadians and Australians, natch), and that Europe is being ‘re-colonization’ due to immigration, so we all better ‘start being rascist pretty quick’…as if folks who make these types of arguments this needed an additional excuse. 😛 My own concern is that all these damned relatively hairless hominids are taking over the freaking planet! They are EVERYWHERE! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-or-europe-more-racist/726293/34 "2015-07-28T01:42:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are we comparing “Country vs. Continent” or “Continent vs. Continent”? I’m not sure if the OP would consider Canada to be Americanish or Europeanish (assuming he considered Canada at all); same for Mexico. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-or-europe-more-racist/726293/35 "2015-07-28T01:50:32Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Currently, Europe makes up 11% of the worlds population, so my guess is that the StormFront types think that means only 11% are ‘white’ But Russia, Australia, NZ and the whole of North America are not in Europe. Yet are, for the most part, chock full of white dudes 😕. You can tally a few million from South Africa, too. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-or-europe-more-racist/726293/36 "2015-07-28T01:52:02Z")
> [@XT](#): > > My own concern is that all these damned relatively hairless hominids are taking over the freaking planet! They are EVERYWHERE! :eek: Damn straight we are ! Preserving the land from all those fucking trees encroaching everywhere you look ! ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-or-europe-more-racist/726293/37 "2015-07-28T02:39:10Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > But Russia, Australia, NZ and the whole of North America are not in Europe. Yet are, for the most part, chock full of white dudes 😕. You can tally a few million from South Africa, too. True, but I suspect that friend dudonarrival, or at least some of the folks making the 11% claim don’t think that they all count (certainly not the ones in South Africa…it’s in AFRICA for cryin out loud and something something baby Jesus!). They (not dudonarrival of course) probably don’t count Jews, for one thing, nor do they count Spanish, Italians, Greeks, the Balkans, Eastern Europeans, Russians (well, SOME Russians…probably the White Russians at least :p) or the like. Americans and Canadians and such…depends on who is talking I guess. But Americans, especially, are being infiltrated by the Hispanic Hordes, corrupting good white folks, and we have all manner of other folks of color here, so a lot of our population is mongrelized (I know I’m doing MY part to make that true!!), so most ‘white’ Americans probably don’t count. I’m unsure of the current (or even past) thoughts of the StormFront crowd about Canada and Australia, but most likely it’s along the same lines. So, ‘white’ folks (the very small subset of Caucasians…the right types of course) are a beleaguered and diminishing minority as they become diluted by the likes of, well, me and my kind as well as hordes of other non-whites marrying and breeding with our betters (my own wife is of good German stock, so probably brings a tear to the eyes of the SF types reading this in horror and anguish). It’s been a hell of a lot of fun, I’ll tell you that… ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-or-europe-more-racist/726293/38 "2015-07-28T04:03:56Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > But Russia, Australia, NZ and the whole of North America are not in Europe. IIRC around 80% of Russians are in Europe, though. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-or-europe-more-racist/726293/39 "2015-07-28T13:51:18Z")
Speaking from personal anecdotes, I have met several Europeans who have condemned the US for our racial issues, but then turned out to be racist themselves. I can’t say who is necessarily more racist, but I do think that the idea that America is necessarily more racist is a result of some misrepresentation. First, the ethnic diversity in the US is generally higher in the US than in a given European country. Yes, Europe as a whole has a lot of diversity, but those issues are generally not dealt with by Europe as a whole, but rather by each individual country. As an internal example, I live in Northern Virginia, which is quite diverse, and seeing people of different races is extremely common. But I’ve also met people from the midwest, who were relatively new to the area, and this whole idea of so many non-white people was just a new experience to them, not necessarily bad, just unusual. Some adapted quickly, some had some racist ideas, perhaps just because they hadn’t grown up with racial tolerance. But, of course, coming from the midwest, there just isn’t a whole lot of racial tension there, because it’s considerably more homogeneous there. Second, I think what racial tensions do happen in the US get exaggerated and well-known because of how ubiquitous our media is, not just here, but around the world. When we have racial issues here, everyone knows, and many people around the world know too. But we just don’t hear about a lot of the same sorts of issues going on in Europe unless we go looking for it. So, I’m not really sure which is worse, but just that the first thought is that it is the US, I don’t think that inherently means it is. I’d imagine that we’re probably not all that different in total, just in what the issues are. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-or-europe-more-racist/726293/40 "2015-08-05T07:22:35Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > What happened with the aboriginals wasn’t too different from how ethnic Russians went from Kievan Rus to Vladivostok, so I reject the attempt to call the fate of the American aborginals a “genocide.” While I agree that the treatment of aboriginals should not be considered a genocide in the same sense as the Holocaust, neither can it be downgraded to the historic migrations of early medieval Europe. For all their “barbarity” the Germanic people who invaded or migrated into the Roman Empire, and later Ukraine, seemed to harbor a good deal of respect for those native cultures. You’ll notice that nobody in Spain, France or Italy today speaks Vandal, Frankish, or Ostrogothic as their mother tongue. Obviously we can’t say that about what happened in North America, even though I would argue that the resulting collapse of native populations and resulting loss of cultural viability was, to a considerable extent, accidental through the effects of disease rather than a deliberate extermination. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-or-europe-more-racist/726293.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-or-europe-more-racist/726293.md?page=3)