# Is America Really Backward Compared to the Rest of the West **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 13, 2010, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329 "2010-03-13T05:30:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/281 "2010-03-23T11:39:38Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > How do you define “fornication?” And would you outlaw it as such? He’s already made clear that he wouldn’t use force to stop people doing anything, he’d just put people into prison camps who do. Surely you can see his internally consistent point? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/282 "2010-03-23T11:56:33Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] Liberalism is an intolerant and hate-filled ideology driven by unquestioned belief in the goodness and right of its own position and the further belief that the only reason people could possibly oppose it is because they are either evil or stupid…or both…and as such deserving of no quarter when it comes to public policy or acceptance by society. [/quote] Doesn’t the incoherent Republican rage at everything and anything stem from the fact that ~76% of Republicans are in fact suppressed homosexuals? As a man close to this movement, I’m sure you can advise one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/283 "2010-03-23T15:39:33Z")
Have we done a thread on why the US American Republican party is so attractive to closeted homosexual men? ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/284 "2010-03-23T15:41:46Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Have we done a thread on why the US American Republican party is so attractive to closeted homosexual men? Start it. I suggest the pit, but a short tour of great debates may be entertaining first. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/285 "2010-03-23T21:27:00Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Liberalism is an intolerant and hate-filled ideology driven by unquestioned belief in the goodness and right of its own position and the further belief that the only reason people could possibly oppose it is because they are either evil or stupid…or both…and as such deserving of no quarter when it comes to public policy or acceptance by society. I’ve heard this sort of bilge before. My comment to those who spew it is this: look at who votes on the extremes of both idealogies, then tell me again who is intolerant and hateful. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/286 "2010-03-24T02:37:41Z")
> [@GreatStuffMan](#): > > Yep, it is. > No, he wasn’t. He was prosecuted for saying something along the lines of “sexual abnormalities are cancer tumors on society”. Which is a metaphor and he also said in his sermon not to hate homosexuals. > [@tagos](#): > > Cameron and Merkel would be on the extreme left wing of the Democratic Party so forgive the hell out of us if we’re not overly impressed with this ‘argument’. I doubt for Cameron at least. Cameron would be centre-left here not far left. Plus this means full-on European social democracy is not working. > [@tagos](#): > > you do know you are not a Christian don’t you? > > However there are a number of philosophies that share your ideas and a fondness for locking people up in camps. They even have snappy uniforms. You should check them out. Ah yes…Godwin’s Law. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > How do you define “fornication?” And would you outlaw it as such? “Sex outside marriage” and no I wouldn’t outlaw all forms of fornication but I would outlaw adultery and prostitution. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/287 "2010-03-24T02:53:53Z")
**Curtis** , you’re such a child. “Full-on European social democracy is not working” when in actuality 300 million Europeans live in peace and security while trying to, or moving towards, and integrated federation without a bloody civil war. Give how you can barely speak to Canadian culture, economics or legal structures I’m not sure proclaiming the end of European social democracy is a clever thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/288 "2010-03-24T02:54:19Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > “Sex outside marriage” and no I wouldn’t outlaw all forms of fornication but I would outlaw adultery and prostitution. I don’t suppose you’d care to respond to my question earlier regarding the religious influences in your life? As I’ve said before, early teenaged boys are not typically anti-sex unless they’ve got a strong religious background, and it might help understand where you’re coming from to have that point clarified. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/289 "2010-03-24T03:01:39Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > **Curtis** , you’re such a child. “Full-on European social democracy is not working” when in actuality 300 million Europeans live in peace and security while trying to, or moving towards, and integrated federation without a bloody civil war. Give how you can barely speak to Canadian culture, economics or legal structures I’m not sure proclaiming the end of European social democracy is a clever thing to do. Or else why’re people throughout Europe calling for more privitization of the health care systems? > [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I don’t suppose you’d care to respond to my question earlier regarding the religious influences in your life? As I’ve said before, early teenaged boys are not typically anti-sex unless they’ve got a strong religious background, and it might help understand where you’re coming from to have that point clarified. Yes I am an orthodox Evangelical Protestant Christian. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/290 "2010-03-24T03:05:30Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Yes I am an orthodox Evangelical Protestant Christian. Ah, that explains a lot (And it’s not a criticism). All I can say is that you should keep an open mind and be prepared to have your views (not just on this, but on many topics) challenged as you get older. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/291 "2010-03-24T05:29:28Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > “Sex outside marriage” and no I wouldn’t outlaw all forms of fornication but I would outlaw adultery and prostitution. Adultery is in the eye of the beholder, and how the hell are you going to prove it? You sure as hell like meddling in peoples’ personal lives. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/292 "2010-03-24T10:48:21Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Or else why’re people throughout Europe calling for more privitization of the health care systems? Yep, there’s that famous depth of consideration you’re so well known for. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/293 "2010-03-24T11:43:16Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > I doubt for Cameron at least. Cameron would be centre-left here not far left. Plus this means full-on European social democracy is not working. Oh complete bullshit. The UK Conservative party platform includes ringfencing money for the NHS, boosting funding for public schools, revamping the UK’s energy policy, especially with regard to sustainable energy, tackling racism etc. etc. It’s American style corporatism combined with your insane emphasis on electing far right pinheads that isn’t working. Your country is a wreck and you’re staring down an economic precipice. The social democracies of central continental Europe are going from strength to strength, maintaining a higher standard of living than you’ve ever enjoyed. The UK right wing is far to the left of even the American left wing, which also makes the comments about Europeans electing Nazis (not made in this thread, but elsewhere on these boards) ridiculous. Even the “far right” BNP is to the left of the GOP. ---
**Author:** ![GSV\_Consolation\_of\_Dreams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f1d935/32.png) [@GSV\_Consolation\_of\_Dreams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GSV_Consolation_of_Dreams)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/294 "2010-03-24T11:58:26Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Or else why’re people throughout Europe calling for more privitization of the health care systems? Answer: We aren’t doing any such thing, or did I miss a meeting?:smack: ---
**Author:** ![The\_Lurker\_Above](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@The\_Lurker\_Above](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Lurker_Above)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/295 "2010-03-24T13:41:19Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Or else why’re people throughout Europe calling for more privitization of the health care systems? I’m not sure that’s actually so, given your track record on statements about non-US countries. But by this standard, people throughout the US calling for more socialization of health care (it’s been in the news once or twice) means full on American capitalism isn’t working. ---
**Author:** ![jinty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dbc845/32.png) [@jinty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jinty)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/296 "2010-03-24T13:53:26Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Or else why’re people throughout Europe calling for more privitization of the health care systems? Well here’s your problem. We’re not. I mean we’re **really not** , on a humungous scale. This is a clear instance of making something up because that’s the way you want it to be. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/297 "2010-03-24T15:14:45Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Really? By 2012, compared to the U.S. Canada will have: > > - A less progressive personal income tax system. > - A smaller government as a percentage of GDP > - Lower business taxes > - Lower dividend and capital gains taxes > - A smaller deficit by far > - Less debt > - Fewer business regulations > - A completely solvent retirement system > > Canada - the right-wing alternative in North America. Who’da thunk it? Something just occurred to me – do you believe that the US tax system is progressive? The federal income tax is slightly progressive but if you take all taxes together it’s not progressive and may even be slightly regressive. ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/298 "2010-03-24T16:03:51Z")
I know, live in Europe is very, very restrictive. For example, I can not go out on the street and shout on top of my lungs _“All black people are niggers and should be killed, because they are the spawn of satan”_ … never got the urge to do this, but I can’t anyway… well, till the police comes anyhow. I’m also able to sit in a park or the beach and have a sip on a glass of beer, wine or coke… very restricting, since I don’t have to use a paperbag around it, while I’m not allowed to wear my gun. I also don’t like, that they do not arrest these drunken people staggering home after to much to drink and put them into prison with murderes, rapist and drug addicts over night. I also must take my PAID vacation from work, that is a minimum of around 25 working days per year, that I have to take off while still getting paid… this is evil… Also, I’m very cross about the property tax that I do not have to pay here… and they do not take my house of me… As an employer, I am not allowed to fire someone, just because I feel like it, even if they are getting older and their health insurance is linked to the job. I also hate, that I only have to have one single minimum wage to support myself, have a car, cable TV with premier cannels and only have to work 40 hours per week…isn’t it atrocious? British people doing things that only much poorer Americans would do, like bringing lunch, hanging their clothes to dry, or going without cable… this statement is so ridicules. Being poor in one country doing something, does not mean it reflects on someone else in another country. Like fireplaces, almost every house has one here in Ireland; it is tradition…even the really poor ones do… in Germany mostly only rich people have them or old farmhouses. Or driving a bicycle to work, nearly everyone in Holland does that, the rich, the poor, the elderly and young… … in the US, they through cans out at them from the cars, which of cause is their right and I really hate not being FREE enough to do this. Being poor in Ireland means, you are unemployed, yet you still live in a flat, apartment of some sort, have social welfare and you’re not starving… you might not drive the flashy new Mercedes, but you might have a car… unless you’re a homeless bum, who choice to get to hammered to care about anything else. Bringing my lunch to work, maybe I shouldn’t… it’s a poor thing to do, healthy food and all… that my wife prepped for me with love… it is really terrible. Also McDonals in Germany are a little bit different…like [THIS](http://www.mcdonalds.de/unternehmen/restaurants.html) in Germany versus the US [here](http://ummascorner.blogspot.com/2009/07/james-huberty-1984-mcdonalds-massacre.html) or this [one](http://www.signonsandiego.com/san-ysidro-massacre/). There is mostly only two places you get Burgers – McDonald & Burger King. The understanding is different; it’s still classified as junk food- yes. The Buger is not native to germany, there are other options like sausages in a Bun or a Frikadelle (kinda like a burger, but different). ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/299 "2010-03-24T16:26:45Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Or else why’re people throughout Europe calling for more privitization of the health care systems? > > Yes I am an orthodox Evangelical Protestant Christian. Having read your posts for months I can categorically assure you you are not a Christian. Seriously. You are not. Reread the Sermon on The Mount, look again at the life of Jesus. Then accept the fact. And please provide a cite, preferably with actual numbers from a minimum of three social democratic countries to support your wrong assertion about private health demands. From a reputable source. Cite please. Cite please Cite please While I’m watching the tumbrel roll by here’s a cite from the [British Medical Association](http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/short/340/feb12_2/c884?rss=1) - you know - doctors - > [@](#): > > The BMA is urging the public to support its campaign against private companies providing NHS care in England, which it says is adversely affecting many parts of the health service. > > The BMA’s “Look After our NHS” campaign ([www.lookafterournhs.org.uk](http://www.lookafterournhs.org.uk)), which was launched to emphasise the problem among doctors in June 2009, is now being extended to highlight the issue to the general public. Successive governmental policies have allowed commercially run firms to compete against existing NHS trusts and GP practices to provide NHS care, to the detriment of the health service, says the BMA. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/300 "2010-03-24T17:38:10Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Oh complete bullshit. The UK Conservative party platform includes ringfencing money for the NHS, boosting funding for public schools, revamping the UK’s energy policy, especially with regard to sustainable energy, tackling racism etc. etc. It’s American style corporatism combined with your insane emphasis on electing far right pinheads that isn’t working. Your country is a wreck and you’re staring down an economic precipice. The social democracies of central continental Europe are going from strength to strength, maintaining a higher standard of living than you’ve ever enjoyed. > > The UK right wing is far to the left of even the American left wing, which also makes the comments about Europeans electing Nazis (not made in this thread, but elsewhere on these boards) ridiculous. Even the “far right” BNP is to the left of the GOP. **Curtis** , do yourself a favour and read this post. Read it until you understand it, and assume that the European making it knows what he’s talking about. About the only thing I’d add is to re-consider the labels “left wing” and “right wing” in US American politics - you have no left wing. You have right wing and righter wing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329.md?page=16)