# Is America Really Backward Compared to the Rest of the West **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 13, 2010, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329 "2010-03-13T05:30:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/341 "2010-03-29T11:54:38Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > I have read this ENTIRE thread, for my sins, and it’s appears to me that in M. Le May’s world, and to a certain extent, Starving Artist’s, we all live in a cartoon. > > Now pardon me while I use some of my ill-gotten state subsidies to get one of my slaves to vote for a fundamentalist Muslim in order to collapse my own economy - but in a fascist way. You know, socialism! You are forgetting [this](http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20100325/sc_livescience/quarterofrepublicansthinkobamamaybetheantichrist)article… it explains why Europe is so backwards ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/342 "2010-03-30T01:07:21Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > You are forgetting [this](http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20100325/sc_livescience/quarterofrepublicansthinkobamamaybetheantichrist)article… it explains why Europe is so backwards That’s sad. Just…sad. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/343 "2010-03-30T03:12:43Z")
At least they said ‘might’ be the Antichrist. Plus this is the same sector of republicans who think we were riding dinosaurs 5000 years ago, so - what else is new? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/344 "2010-04-02T00:40:50Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > At least they said ‘might’ be the Antichrist. Plus this is the same sector of republicans who think we were riding dinosaurs 5000 years ago, so - what else is new? As usual strawmanning while accusing me of strawmanning. Not all Republicans are Young Earth Creationists-George W Bush, John McCain, William F Buckley, George Will aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/345 "2010-04-02T01:14:28Z")
You mean that Bush, McCain, Will, etc., do think that Obama is the Antichrist? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/346 "2010-04-02T02:58:52Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > As usual strawmanning while accusing me of strawmanning. Not all Republicans are Young Earth Creationists-George W Bush, John McCain, William F Buckley, George Will aren’t. So what do they want – a cookie? ---
**Author:** ![puddin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b5ac83/32.png) [@puddin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddin)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/347 "2010-04-03T04:24:38Z")
We saved europe twice. At 5% of world’s population we do 20% of the total economic output. We gave the world: hubble, refrigeration, telegraph, anestesia, airplanes, buldozzers, nuke power, nuke subs, laser, birth control pill, kevlar, e-mail, space shuttle, G.P.S., oh, this backward country landed on the moon while the europeans were developing a better ski lift. All that and more than I can mention, and we did it with …5% of this earth’s population. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/348 "2010-04-03T10:44:34Z")
> [@puddin](#): > > We saved europe twice. Hands up who, here, fought in WWI or WWII? How long are you going to keep living off those dried-out laurels? > [@](#): > > At 5% of world’s population we do 20% of the total economic output. …and produce 20% of the CO[sub]2[/sub], and similar amounts of other pollutants. And guzzle the oil and other resources. 2 sides to very story… > [@](#): > > We gave the world: hubble, refrigeration, telegraph, anestesia, airplanes, buldozzers, nuke power, nuke subs, laser, birth control pill, kevlar, e-mail, space shuttle, G.P.S., Whoop-de-doo. Nazis gave us the jet airplane, Apartheid South Africa gave us the heart transplant…what the hell does that prove? We’re not discussing your tech competence, we’re discussing your social evolution here. > [@](#): > > oh, this backward country landed on the moon while the europeans were developing a better ski lift. …yet those Europeans have UHC while you have medical bankruptcies. > [@](#): > > All that and more than I can mention, and we did it with …5% of this earth’s population. …and 20% of its resources. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/349 "2010-04-03T10:46:22Z")
> [@puddin](#): > > We saved europe twice. At 5% of world’s population we do 20% of the total economic output. We gave the world: hubble, refrigeration, telegraph, anestesia, airplanes, buldozzers, nuke power, nuke subs, laser, birth control pill, kevlar, e-mail, space shuttle, G.P.S., oh, this backward country landed on the moon while the europeans were developing a better ski lift. All that and more than I can mention, and we did it with …5% of this earth’s population. Have you read this thread? There’s no dispute that America is great in terms of churning out money and leading the way technologically, it’s that socially it’s at a complete tangent from the rest of the western world. China developed more things technologically and culturally than the west did in the ancient and medieval age, yet would they be considered an advanced country now? ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/350 "2010-04-03T10:47:42Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > You are forgetting [this](http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20100325/sc_livescience/quarterofrepublicansthinkobamamaybetheantichrist)article… it explains why Europe is so backwards I thought Johnny Rotten was the Anti-christ? ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/351 "2010-04-03T12:12:37Z")
Yes. He wanted to be an anarchist, but he couldn’t type. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/352 "2010-04-03T14:29:21Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > As usual strawmanning while accusing me of strawmanning. Not all Republicans are Young Earth Creationists-George W Bush, John McCain, William F Buckley, George Will aren’t. Actually, I wasn’t talking to you, however, here you are again. I was arguing that the Republicans are just the same as they’ve been for ages. There are excellent politicians and thoughtful Republican voters, however 70% of Republicans favor teaching ‘Creation Science’ in schools alongside, well, real science ([Pew Report 06/05/07](http://pewresearch.org/pubs/500/republican-debate)). Now, I note a hell of a lot Democrats are also stupid (53%), however, the Republicans are the dominant dinosaur-riding party. So, regarding the [Obama/ Antichrist](http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20100325/sc_livescience/quarterofrepublicansthinkobamamaybetheantichrist) connection: I said that the Republicans who think Obama is the Antichrist (25%) are part of the 70% Republicans who think we should teach “Creation Science”. Are you saying that its a different 25%? Because this would leave us a breakdown of Republican party as follows: 70% - Creationists 25% - Obama is the Antichrist 5% - Will, Buckley, McCain and George Bush, etc. Because I can’t agree. I have much more respect for the party of Lincoln than this. Or at least I did before Palin started to speak. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/353 "2010-04-03T16:15:23Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Actually, I wasn’t talking to you, however, here you are again. > > I was arguing that the Republicans are just the same as they’ve been for ages. There are excellent politicians and thoughtful Republican voters, however 70% of Republicans favor teaching ‘Creation Science’ in schools alongside, well, real science ([Pew Report 06/05/07](http://pewresearch.org/pubs/500/republican-debate)). Now, I note a hell of a lot Democrats are also stupid (53%), however, the Republicans are the dominant dinosaur-riding party. > > So, regarding the [Obama/ Antichrist](http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20100325/sc_livescience/quarterofrepublicansthinkobamamaybetheantichrist) connection: I said that the Republicans who think Obama is the Antichrist (25%) are part of the 70% Republicans who think we should teach “Creation Science”. Are you saying that its a different 25%? Because this would leave us a breakdown of Republican party as follows: > 70% - Creationists > 25% - Obama is the Antichrist > 5% - Will, Buckley, McCain and George Bush, etc. > > Because I can’t agree. I have much more respect for the party of Lincoln than this. Or at least I did before Palin started to speak. Well “Creation Science” is quite vague. It might mean simply something “Evolution is so random, some Higher Power must have guided it” or it might be acknowleding there are opposing views but not advocating it. And yeah: YEC Republicans and “Obama’s the Antichrist!” Republicans are probably one and the same. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/354 "2010-04-03T18:57:31Z")
Where can I buy a buldozzer? They sound fun. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/355 "2010-04-03T20:01:32Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > I thought Johnny Rotten was the Anti-christ? No, he was \*an \*Antichrist. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/356 "2010-04-03T20:36:37Z")
> [@puddin](#): > > … this backward country landed on the moon while the europeans were developing a better ski lift. … Wernher I’d like you to met **puddin** , **puddin** meet [Wernher von Braun](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun). He’s the chief architect of the Saturn V launch vehicle, the superbooster that propelled the Apollo spacecraft to the Moon and a part-time ski lift designer. What’s that Wernher “Keine Skilifte sind gerade eine Liebhaberei von meinen!” Yes, sorry I always forget, ski-lifts are just his hobby. :smack: You’ll have to forgive him, his English isn’t as good as his German. :eek: CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/357 "2010-04-03T23:02:21Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Well “Creation Science” is quite vague. Well that’s pretty much the problem, isn’t it? And I’m glad you used quotes. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/358 "2010-04-06T10:00:34Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Wernher I’d like you to met **puddin** , **puddin** meet [Wernher von Braun](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun). He’s the chief architect of the Saturn V launch vehicle, the superbooster that propelled the Apollo spacecraft to the Moon and a part-time ski lift designer. > What’s that Wernher “Keine Skilifte sind gerade eine Liebhaberei von meinen!” Yes, sorry I always forget, ski-lifts are just his hobby. :smack: > You’ll have to forgive him, his English isn’t as good as his German. :eek: Plus his original “ski-lift to the moon” idea didn’t pan out, being the worst idea for a means of transport since Napoleon built those military waterslides into Russia. ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/359 "2010-04-06T10:55:23Z")
> [@puddin](#): > > We saved europe twice. At 5% of world’s population we do 20% of the total economic output. We gave the world: hubble, refrigeration, telegraph, anestesia, airplanes, buldozzers, nuke power, nuke subs, laser, birth control pill, kevlar, e-mail, space shuttle, G.P.S., oh, this backward country landed on the moon while the europeans were developing a better ski lift. All that and more than I can mention, and we did it with …5% of this earth’s population. Kinda funny considering that Von Braun was a Nazi, so [this](http://www.ironsky.net/site/) is not unreasonable. Since [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasa#NASA) is what the NASA based theire space race on. Also interesting, that a big huge numbers of Scientists working on the Manhattan Project where not really from the US originally. The Laser…right… read the [history](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lase#Foundations), something about a certain German Scientiest, almost unkown to anyone, Albert Einstein started the thing somehow… never mind the other and hundreds of scientists who emigrated from Germany. Just for your information the Hubble aka “The HST” is a collaboration between NASA and the European Space Agency, btw ESA also established itself as the forerunner in space exploration. Refrigeration: The first known method of artificial refrigeration was demonstrated by William Cullen at the University of Glasgow in Scotland in 1756. Alexander Twining is credited with having initiated commercial refrigeration in the United States by 1856. However, in Australia, James Harrison began operation of a mechanical ice-making machine in 1851and His first commercial ice-making machine followed in 1854 and his patent for an ether liquid-vapour compression refrigeration system was granted in 1855. Just to give you the heads up… the Germans invented the car. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329/360 "2010-04-06T12:54:12Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > Just to give you the heads up… the Germans invented the car. And a New Zealander (Richard Pearse) invented the powered-flight aeroplane before the Wright Brothers, and a British officer (Frederick Beaumont) invented the double-action revolver… The list of “Great stuff not invented by Americans” goes on but it’s more than a little dick-waving to start comparing that sort of thing IME. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-really-backward-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-west/532329.md?page=19)