# Is America the best place for the pursuit of happiness? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 28, 2008, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-best-place-for-the-pursuit-of-happiness/447154 "2008-04-28T00:24:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Gozu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gozu/32/6615_2.png) [@Gozu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-best-place-for-the-pursuit-of-happiness/447154/1 "2008-04-28T00:24:29Z")
Shouldn’t we, as a nation, find out which country has the most happy citizens, p_rovided we think they are free_ and have access to a better health plan\* on population average than americans,\* and strive to be more like them? In today’s world, which would be that country in your opinion (any reliable, comprehensive, accurate polls out there on happiness?), and would it be feasible to pull something like this off? \*Life, freedom, and the pursuit etc. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-best-place-for-the-pursuit-of-happiness/447154/2 "2008-04-28T00:35:09Z")
[The world’s happiest country is Denmark](http://www.nevillehobson.com/2006/07/31/the-worlds-happiest-country-is-denmark/). I have no idea how worthy the study or the article is, but it’s oft-quoted. (USA ranks 23.) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-best-place-for-the-pursuit-of-happiness/447154/3 "2008-04-28T00:36:20Z")
It’s [Denmark](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shepBx2ogJo), according to _60 Minutes_. They go on to explain why. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-best-place-for-the-pursuit-of-happiness/447154/4 "2008-04-28T00:44:11Z")
Well, they can say that, but I consider myself very lucky I wasn’t born in Denmark. I don’t speak a word of Danish. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![gatorman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/96bed5/32.png) [@gatorman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gatorman)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-best-place-for-the-pursuit-of-happiness/447154/5 "2008-04-28T00:58:23Z")
It all boils down to the (painful) truth that money doesn’t buy happiness, money is actually pretty worthless ---
**Author:** ![Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crocodiles_And_Boulevards)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-best-place-for-the-pursuit-of-happiness/447154/6 "2008-04-28T01:25:17Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] Well, they can say that, but I consider myself very lucky I wasn’t born in Denmark. I don’t speak a word of Danish. 😃 [/QUOTE] Hehe, but isn’t English an extremely common 2nd language in Denmark? Everyone I’ve ever met from Denmark had remarkable English. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-best-place-for-the-pursuit-of-happiness/447154/7 "2008-04-28T01:41:47Z")
To me, “the pursuit of happiness” is about giving individuals the freedom to decide what makes them happy, and the freedom to go do it. It’s not about social engineering, where we decide as a group what makes people happy and make everyone do that “for their own good.” ---
**Author:** ![ZebraShaSha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-best-place-for-the-pursuit-of-happiness/447154/8 "2008-04-28T01:58:12Z")
[QUOTE=gatorman] It all boils down to the (painful) truth that money doesn’t buy happiness, money is actually pretty worthless [/QUOTE] You don’t have enough money! ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-best-place-for-the-pursuit-of-happiness/447154/9 "2008-04-28T02:05:09Z")
[QUOTE=gatorman] It all boils down to the (painful) truth that money doesn’t buy happiness, money is actually pretty worthless [/QUOTE] [Weird Al Yankovic] _They say money can’t buy happiness, so I guess I’ll have to rent it !_ [/Weird Al Yankovic] ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-best-place-for-the-pursuit-of-happiness/447154/10 "2008-04-28T02:44:43Z")
[QUOTE=Gozu] Shouldn’t we, as a nation, find out which country has the most happy citizens, p_rovided we think they are free_ and have access to a better health plan\* on population average than americans,\* and strive to be more like them? [/QUOTE] You’re assuming that happiness is a moral imperative we should strive for. I’ve heard from several sources that the Amish are happier than most other U.S. citizens. Does that mean we should all strive to be like the Amish? Marc ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-best-place-for-the-pursuit-of-happiness/447154/11 "2008-04-28T02:47:25Z")
The Amish may be happy being Amish. I, on the other hand, would be miserable being Amish. Granted, this may only be a result of my non-Amish upbringing, but I feel it is an essential point nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-best-place-for-the-pursuit-of-happiness/447154/12 "2008-04-28T03:04:31Z")
[QUOTE=Indistinguishable] The Amish may be happy being Amish. I, on the other hand, would be miserable being Amish. Granted, this may only be a result of my non-Amish upbringing, but I feel it is an essential point nonetheless. [/QUOTE] Even assuming that happiness can be measured and compared accurately except at the extremes ( which I doubt ), as I understand it, if you want to leave, they let you leave. As I recall, even the stricter sects won’t do more than shun those that leave; they aren’t like the cults that live in fortified compounds with guards so dissenters can’t leave. That means that they are self selected for people that desire that lifestyle, and it’s to be expected that they’d be happier than someone like you or me living like that would be. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-best-place-for-the-pursuit-of-happiness/447154/13 "2008-04-28T04:58:41Z")
I speak Danish, and I love Denmark, but I don’t want to live there. [/total nonsequitur] ---
**Author:** ![The\_Them](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/898d66/32.png) [@The\_Them](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Them)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-best-place-for-the-pursuit-of-happiness/447154/14 "2008-04-28T05:48:06Z")
Stupid ancestors! Why’d they leave Denmark?! I could be having fun right now! **OK, only some of my ancestors were from Denmark** ---
**Author:** ![Darryl\_Lict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Darryl\_Lict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darryl_Lict)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-best-place-for-the-pursuit-of-happiness/447154/15 "2008-04-28T09:09:13Z")
Bhutan uses a metric called [Gross National Happiness](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_national_happiness). I think this is a completely awesome concept. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-best-place-for-the-pursuit-of-happiness/447154/16 "2008-04-28T09:29:31Z")
How happy would the majority of Americans be if they cycled everywhere, paid higher taxes and lived next to windfarms? I know I’d be very happy iin Denmark, but going by what people here have indicated, Americans in general seem to value personal liberty (and cars!) more than social security. So I don’t think you can look to the Scandiwegian model to increase happiness, without a lot of re-education first. And that isn’t happening. IMO, America is not the \*best \*place for the pursuit of happiness - society is too stratified, and the country’s too big and unwieldy overall. But it is better than most. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-best-place-for-the-pursuit-of-happiness/447154/17 "2008-04-28T14:39:36Z")
The linked study that puts Denmark as the #1 most happy attributes this to low expectations. In other words, they are thrilled when things go right and not dismayed when they don’t because they never expected them to. Citizens of countries like the U.S. are pushed to do better and better and don’t like to be 2nd to anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-best-place-for-the-pursuit-of-happiness/447154/18 "2008-04-28T14:51:27Z")
[QUOTE=The Controvert] It’s [Denmark](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shepBx2ogJo), according to _60 Minutes_. They go on to explain why. [/QUOTE] Some of the whys are disturbing. Lack of racial diversity. Lowered expectations. Dependence on the US for military defense. It’s unclear whether they could afford their welfare society if they had to pay for their own defense. Arms and armies are incredibly expensive. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-best-place-for-the-pursuit-of-happiness/447154/19 "2008-04-28T15:43:44Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Some of the whys are disturbing. Lack of racial diversity. Lowered expectations. Dependence on the US for military defense. It’s unclear whether they could afford their welfare society if they had to pay for their own defense. Arms and armies are incredibly expensive. [/QUOTE] The lack of racial diversity is a very interesting one, I think. **MrDibble** makes the point that the US is very large and unwieldy, which it is, and is a factor in a lot of the inequities that work against happiness for everyone. It’s also a very diverse country racially and ethnically, which is a source of richness and a source of tension. It may hamper “happiness” in some ways, due to this societal tension, but it’s also a defining characteristic of our American culture, and one that should be appreciated despite it’s downside. The fact that this diversity exists means that different people are going to need different things to make them happy, which is partly what I was alluding to in my earlier post. The Constitution guarantees the right to _pursue happiness_…it doesn’t guarantee the right to _be happy_. It’s not an expression of the idea that people ought to be ensured the best possible situation for them, but rather that they should be ensured the freedom to create that situation for themselves. In the US, it would be too easy for my happiness to conflict with someone else’s, because the population varies so widely. This would make it difficult to figure out what it is that “makes people happy,” and try to achieve that. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-best-place-for-the-pursuit-of-happiness/447154/20 "2008-04-28T15:49:46Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] partly what I was alluding to in my earlier post. The Constitution guarantees the right to _pursue happiness_…it doesn’t guarantee the right to _be happy_. [/QUOTE] I agree with the gist of what you’re saying, but in the interest of the board’s mission, I feel compelled to point out that that is in the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-best-place-for-the-pursuit-of-happiness/447154.md?page=2)