# Is America the greatest country on Earth, and why? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 30, 2012, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836 "2012-06-30T19:01:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/82 "2012-07-03T00:11:43Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > In pretty much every other way, America is not by any stretch of the imagination the greatest country on Earth. You don’t have to stretch, but sometimes you have to _squint_. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/83 "2012-07-03T00:45:26Z")
I have a whole spectrum of likes and dislikes, but realistically, it’s the US, Russia, or China. Of those three, which one do you want to run the show? ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/84 "2012-07-03T00:50:29Z")
Someone said this earlier, but in the first world, the greatest country is the one which reflects your values; and your values are likely moulded by where you grew up. It’s a self-fulfilling circular thing, by and large, and it’s therefore no surprise that many people feel their own country is - for them - the best place to be. It’s not a universal rule, of course. The exceptions aren’t an insignificant percentage, as this very thread shows. But I’d wager that greater than 50% of every first world country considers their own country the best, because it reflects the very values and priorities it instilled in them. We see it in Americans more than other countries simply because they’re the most populous English-speaking country, and therefore most English-language websites are largely dominated by Americans. I bet French-language websites are dominated by Frenchmen who think the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/85 "2012-07-03T02:25:00Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@78lighthead](#): > > > > Things may not always be the best for everyone here, but you have a chance of the possibility for success! Not true every where else in the world! > > But you have a better chance of success in most of the industrialized word. But here you can be sure your success _doesn’t help anybody but you._ That’s a great feeling. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/86 "2012-07-03T03:13:08Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Has America been considered the “leader of the free world” anywhere but in its collective fantasies? I would say yes, following WWII. America and all things Americans had tremendous popularity. I remember even old communists, when I was younger, who still had this fascination for the USA that most people of their generation shared. This came to an end, I think, in the mid-60s, with the contestation of established values, the Vietnam war, etc…The generation that came to adulthood at that time didn’t have anymore this rosy view of the USA. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/87 "2012-07-03T03:35:29Z")
> [@Lobot](#): > > [li]Child poverty: U.S. #2, Australia #9[/li]. I must assume that the US is second best (not second worst) in child poverty. So, that would make it better than Australia. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/88 "2012-07-03T03:48:24Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I must assume that the US is second best (not second worst) in child poverty. So, that would make it better than Australia. My source was [this page](http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_chi_pov-economy-child-poverty). Obviously a whole load of third world countries are absent from the list. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/89 "2012-07-03T03:57:27Z")
> [@An\_Arky](#): > > I have a whole spectrum of likes and dislikes, but realistically, it’s the US, Russia, or China. Of those three, which one do you want to run the show? Yeah, that’s pretty much the argument that nobody can refute. That’s not to say I’m a jingoist, though. I think the Iraq war was a war crime, and think Bush and Cheney should be prosecuted for it. However, If the choice is between Vladimir Putin, Hu Jintao, and Barry Obama…I think I’ll take the skinny black guy from Honolulu. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/90 "2012-07-03T04:00:12Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > We see it in Americans more than other countries simply because they’re the most populous English-speaking country, and therefore most English-language websites are largely dominated by Americans. I bet French-language websites are dominated by Frenchmen who think the same thing. I don’t think so. Americans appear peculiarly jingoistic to me (planting flags in their yards, the allegiance thing in schools, and yes…the idea that the USA is the greatest country in the world). I never hear people stating that France is the greatest country, and I doubt it’s different in other European countries. And a high level of patriotism is often negatively connoted, or related to extreme-right leanings (soccer competitions being an allowed exception 😉 ). My online experience let me think that the three most jingoistic countries are China, the USA and Iran, in no particular order. I’m surprised, though by the comment read in some link or another that the concept that the USA isn’t the greatest country in the world would be alien to 99% of Americans. I doubt it can possibly rise anywhere close to this level. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/91 "2012-07-03T04:04:07Z")
> [@An\_Arky](#): > > I have a whole spectrum of likes and dislikes, but realistically, it’s the US, Russia, or China. Only if you go by a specific definition of “greatest” (large, with a lot of military assets, maybe?). As previously stated, “greatest” is poorly defined. I see nothing preventing say, Luxembourg, from being considered as the greatest nation depending on your criterias. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/92 "2012-07-03T04:11:43Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I don’t think so. Americans appear peculiarly jingoistic to me (planting flags in their yards, the allegiance thing in schools, and yes…the idea that the USA is the greatest country in the world). I never hear people stating that France is the greatest country, and I doubt it’s different in other European countries. And a high level of patriotism is often negatively connoted, or related to extreme-right leanings (soccer competitions being an allowed exception 😉 ). > > My online experience let me think that the three most jingoistic countries are China, the USA and Iran, in no particular order. > > I’m surprised, though by the comment read in some link or another that the concept that the USA isn’t the greatest country in the world would be alien to 99% of Americans. I doubt it can possibly rise anywhere close to this level. Before 9/11 the level of jingoism was much, much lower. It’s funny how having a plane flown into a building can change your perspective. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/93 "2012-07-03T05:40:27Z")
This is really a silly debate. There is no question that the United States of America is the wealthiest, most productive and militarily powerful nation ever. These are readily verifyable facts. I don’t think you can compare the “greatness” of the USA against the “greatness” of Belgium or Luxembourg just because they enjoy some higher standard of living metrics. They are tiny, relatively homogenius countries. If you want to compare apples to apples, you need to look at countries of similar or greater size - China, India, Indonisia, Brazil and Pakistan. The largest country that comes close to the USA in standard of living would be Japan. ---
**Author:** ![Bumbleblee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f0a364/32.png) [@Bumbleblee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbleblee)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/94 "2012-07-03T06:10:02Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > This is really a silly debate. There is no question that the United States of America is the wealthiest, most productive and militarily powerful nation ever. These are readily verifyable facts. > > I don’t think you can compare the “greatness” of the USA against the “greatness” of Belgium or Luxembourg just because they enjoy some higher standard of living metrics. They are tiny, relatively homogenius countries. If you want to compare apples to apples, you need to look at countries of similar or greater size - China, India, Indonisia, Brazil and Pakistan. The largest country that comes close to the USA in standard of living would be Japan. Hi Mssmith537, I get the impression you are making the assumption that America by definition is the greatest country and that other countries should be compared to it. There is no established definition of greatness. If measuring greatness by military power then yes, America is the greatest country on the planet. But a lot of people use parameters such as crime rates, corruption, obesity, physicians per capita, teen birth rate, divorce rates or even happiness. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/95 "2012-07-03T06:33:22Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Time and time again, I hear about countries like the UK and Australia, where a given video game will effectively be banned from sale because their rating/reviewing agencies refused to issue a rating. And we read someone’s account of how his soul-sucking job is destroying every aspect of his life but he cannot leave because his child’s pre-existing medical condition means he’ll never get insurance again, and we can’t believe it. Indentured servitude in the freest country on earth (just ask them), mandated by the insurance companies. I realise things are just now beginning to change for you on that front (and we’ve finally introduced an adult classification that should stop the effective banning of games!), but sometimes your priorities are so different from ours that it’s impossible to understand how the other side can accept the way things are. Most Australians would be less concerned at the availability of video games and more concerned able being unable to both choose to change their employment and still provide their family with medical care. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/96 "2012-07-03T06:33:54Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > …the three most jingoistic countries are China, the USA and Iran, in no particular order. Obviously the most jingoistic country used to be Great Britain; after all, by Jingo, we invented the term! Nowadays we are a _post-jingoistic_ country for the most part, a condition that is a little sad, but is perhaps preferable to our former condition. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/97 "2012-07-03T07:58:46Z")
Top 10 countries with population over 20 million by GDP(PPP) per capita: 1. USA 2. Canada 3. Australia 4. Germany 5. Taiwan 6. UK 7. France 8. Japan 9. South Korea 10 Spain~Italy > **[List of countries by GDP (PPP) per capita](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_per_capita)** > > A country's gross domestic product (GDP) at purchasing power parity (PPP) per capita is the PPP value of all final goods and services produced within an economy in a given year, divided by the average (or mid-year) population for the same year. This is similar to nominal GDP per capita, but adjusted for the cost of living in each country. > In 2019, the estimated average GDP per capita (PPP) of all of the countries of the world was Int$ 18,381.\[a\] For rankings regarding wealth, see list of co... ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/98 "2012-07-03T08:02:24Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > There is no question that the United States of America is the wealthiest, most productive and militarily powerful nation ever. America is only so “productive” because it’s large and its people work obsessively; per hour of work we aren’t anything special. It’s an artifact of the self-destructive American work ethic that puts hours worked over quality of the work, reward for that work, or quality of life in general. And most of the wealth of America is in the hands of a small subset of the population; that’s not national wealth, that’s the wealth of a few rich hogs. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/99 "2012-07-03T08:12:42Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > America is only so “productive” because it’s large and its people work obsessively; per hour of work we aren’t anything special. It’s an artifact of the self-destructive American work ethic that puts hours worked over quality of the work, reward for that work, or quality of life in general. And most of the wealth of America is in the hands of a small subset of the population; that’s not national wealth, that’s the wealth of a few rich hogs. 1. If one thinks that distribution of wealth is not uniform across all people, one can look at median incomes. US comes at top here as well. > **[Median income](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income)** > > The median income is the income amount that divides a population into two groups, half having an income above that amount, and half having an income below that amount. It may differ from the mean (or average) income. Both of these are ways of understanding income distribution. Median income can be calculated by household income, by personal income, or for specific demographic groups. When taxes and mandatory contributions are subtracted from income, the result is called net or disposable income. ... 1. Its not that only Americans are ambitious or care about quality of work, other nationals work equally hard and long. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/100 "2012-07-03T08:16:30Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > This is really a silly debate. There is no question that the United States of America is the wealthiest, most productive and militarily powerful nation ever. These are readily verifyable facts. Not all all. MAD - which the USA has lived with for most of its imperial period - is not the policy of a truly dominant empire. Nor do you seem to have a grasp of how pretty well the rest of the world views US working habits - as in, most of the world knows, rejects and mocks the macho/exploitative US working culture (national holidays, healthcare tied to employment like serfdom, employee’s lack of rights, subjugation of employee collective representation, etc, etc). It’s kind of like the US constitution, the rest of the world knows about it, assessed it and has always rejected that model. Essentially, it’s way to exploitative - go home people ffs, spend time with your family. If I haven’t made it clear enough; it’s a source of amusement \> mockery. And I don’t understand “wealthiest” either, when the wealth is so grotesquely concentrated. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/101 "2012-07-03T09:48:45Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > Someone said this earlier, but in the first world, the greatest country is the one which reflects your values; and your values are likely moulded by where you grew up. Not necessarily - I mean, I _like_ my country (South Africa) well enough, but I’d be a fool to suggest it was the greatest country in the world (it _is_ the greatest country in Africa IMO, but that’s hardly a prize). My vote would go to either Canada or Denmark, I guess, as two places I would actively _want_ to live in. America’s nice and all, but it’s the _land_ that’s great (and it _is_ awesome - if the debate was “which country is the greatest absent the people”, America definitely gets my vote) not the other stuff. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836.md?page=6)