# Is America the greatest country on Earth, and why? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 30, 2012, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836 "2012-06-30T19:01:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/102 "2012-07-03T09:54:05Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Only if you go by a specific definition of “greatest” (large, with a lot of military assets, maybe?). > > As previously stated, “greatest” is poorly defined. I see nothing preventing say, Luxembourg, from being considered as the greatest nation depending on your criterias. Oh sure. There are several countries that I think are better than the US in quality of life, etc. The “greatest” thing infers power, money and how powerful countries handle themselves. I have many problems with how we roll, too. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/103 "2012-07-03T09:54:55Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > It’s kind of like the US constitution, the rest of the world knows about it, assessed it and has always rejected that model. Not necessarily. The SA constitution is modelled on the US one somewhat - we just made it better (e.g. adding sexual orientation as a protected class, which came in handy in getting gay marriage legalized by the Constitutional Court) ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/104 "2012-07-03T10:08:34Z")
Proportional rep in the assembly is pretty significant. ---
**Author:** ![Tapiotar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3be4f8/32.png) [@Tapiotar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapiotar)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/105 "2012-07-03T11:15:30Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > I think no. > > Regardless, the OP is a bit silly - I’m from Canada and don’t want to live anywhere else so in my opinion Canada is the greatest. > > I have former countrymates that couldn’t wait to move south of the boarder - to them the US is obviously #1. > > So, I guess the answer is ‘It depends.’ By many statistical measures the US barely makes the top 10 but I’m sure many people like it there and I’m not about to tell them they’re wrong. There should be a simple exchange program so that US and Canadian citizens who want to switch could simply swap places. Then again, if it were too easy, there’d be a lot of back-and-forth, as people who moved discovered the imperfections as well as the virtues of their new land, and wanted to go back again. Statisitical measures are things that look good on paper, but don’t always translate to happiness. Finland is at the top or near the top of almost all current lists of great places to live, due to health care, education, and other measures. But every time I’ve lived there, I’ve been miserably unhappy and gone into severe depressions. In spite of fitting in fairly well by looking Finnish, speaking Finnish, having a Finnish name, and Finnish relatives. But it’s a place of misery for me, if I’m there longer than a month, and I am so glad my grandparents moved to the US. But I’d probably be equally happy if they’d moved to Canada or to Australia. If the greatest country is based on the happiness of a large number of citizens, here’s one list: [happiness ranking](http://www.nsf.gov/news/newsmedia/pr111725/pr111725.pdf) Eric Weiner explores happiness in 10 countries in **The Geography of Bliss** , which is worth reading. I think that trying to claim that this country or that is the greatest is futile, though some are more desireable places than others. It may be more useful to think of one’s country is a wonderful place, in spite of its flaws, and do what one can to make it better. If someone loathes one’s homeland; try to make some changes. Or leave, if you can. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/106 "2012-07-03T11:45:44Z")
To a jingoist xenophobe nativist asshole, the US is by far the greatest country EVAH!!! EVAH, EVAH, EVAH, and shut your lying mouth! QED. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/107 "2012-07-03T13:14:52Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Not necessarily - I mean, I _like_ my country (South Africa) well enough, but I’d be a fool to suggest it was the greatest country in the world (it _is_ the greatest country in Africa IMO, but that’s hardly a prize). My vote would go to either Canada or Denmark, I guess, as two places I would actively _want_ to live in. America’s nice and all, but it’s the _land_ that’s great (and it _is_ awesome - if the debate was “which country is the greatest absent the people”, America definitely gets my vote) not the other stuff. That was only the first sentence of my post. There was more. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/108 "2012-07-03T13:48:14Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > Not all all. MAD - which the USA has lived with for most of its imperial period - is not the policy of a truly dominant empire. MAD, by which I assume you are referring to Mutually Assured Destruction is largely a relic of the Cold War. > [@PrettyVacant](#): > > Nor do you seem to have a grasp of how pretty well the rest of the world views US working habits - as in, most of the world knows, rejects and mocks the macho/exploitative US working culture (national holidays, healthcare tied to employment like serfdom, employee’s lack of rights, subjugation of employee collective representation, etc, etc). Which “rest of the world” are you referring to? Your exchange student friend on Facebook? Half of Europe is on the verge of economic collapse because they have no work ethic. Countries like China, India, Indonesia and Brazil have tens of millions of people who live in shantytowns while their 1% live in walled off compounds. > [@PrettyVacant](#): > > It’s kind of like the US constitution, the rest of the world knows about it, assessed it and has always rejected that model. Essentially, it’s way to exploitative - go home people ffs, spend time with your family. This statement just appears to be some sort of bizarre non-sequitor. > [@PrettyVacant](#): > > If I haven’t made it clear enough; it’s a source of amusement \> mockery. How many students come to study in American colleges and universities? How many foreigners come to the US on H1B visas (and illegally) to work at our companies? > [@truthSeeker2](#): > > Top 10 countries with population over 20 million by GDP(PPP) per capita: > > 1. USA > 2. Canada > 3. Australia > 4. Germany > 5. Taiwan > 6. UK > 7. France > 8. Japan > 9. South Korea > 10 Spain~Italy How about GDP per capita for countries with populations over 100 million? United States 6 Japan 24 Russia 53 Mexico 63 Brazil 75 China 92 Indonesia 122 Philippines 126 India 129 Pakistan 137 Nigeria 141 Bangladesh 155 > [@Der Trihs](#): > > America is only so “productive” because it’s large and its people work obsessively; per hour of work we aren’t anything special. It’s an artifact of the self-destructive American work ethic that puts hours worked over quality of the work, reward for that work, or quality of life in general. And most of the wealth of America is in the hands of a small subset of the population; that’s not national wealth, that’s the wealth of a few rich hogs. Move to China and take a job in one of their factories. Then complain to me about hard work and income equality. America is “productive” because we have some of the most modern manufacturing, IT and business processes in the world. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/109 "2012-07-03T14:13:25Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Which “rest of the world” are you referring to? Your exchange student friend on Facebook? Half of Europe is on the verge of economic collapse because they have no work ethic. One country has a dodgy work ethic (or, to be far more accurate, sees tax evasion as a national sport). Even then it is all relative and very much part of the “live to work” versus “work to live” argument. To put it more simply: who gets to say what the correct “work ethic” is? In other news, of course the whole damn mess started somewhere away from Europe. For some reason I can’t quite remember where … ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/110 "2012-07-03T14:39:46Z")
When people tell me that America is the greatest country on earth, I ask them where else they have lived. Turns out they have mostly visited Mexico as tourists. Areas where the US falls significantly short of first world standards: -Health care. Twice as expensive, worst outcomes in the developed world. Worse even than many far less developed nations. -Transportation. Outside of perhaps a half dozen urban areas, it is difficult if not impractical to live without access to a private car. For residents in any large European city, owning a car is almost more hassle than it is worth. US drivers are poorly trained, and licensing standards are very lax. many are unable to deal with a roundabout, fail to keep right on interstates, etc. etc. -Food. Plenty of cheap crappy food. Good food is less available and more expensive than in most places. Availability of cheap crappy prepared food results in many adults that can’t/won’t/don’t cook. 30 years ago I observed that the US failed at Coffee, Beer, and Bread. The first two have been largely solved in the decades since, but it is still hard to find decent bread, and crap bread is still the default. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/111 "2012-07-03T15:00:35Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Which “rest of the world” are you referring to? Your exchange student friend on Facebook? Half of Europe is on the verge of economic collapse because they have no work ethic. Countries like China, India, Indonesia and Brazil have tens of millions of people who live in shantytowns while their 1% live in walled off compounds. LOL. The root of the problems lays very squarely with the banking sector and its involvement with US sub prime - as was very clearly pointed out to the US President at the recent G20 in Mexico where he kindly offered advice. How you manage to talk about non-sequitors, then root the austerity measures in work ethic is quite an achievement. Fwiw, the developed world has always rejected US workplace culture and practices, and very often mocks it. I was obv. talking about the developed world, not wanting to equate US work culture and practices with the developeding world. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/112 "2012-07-03T15:14:18Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > How about GDP per capita for countries with populations over 100 million? Smaller countries need not develop all sectors of economy, have international influence and commitments, strong constitution n tolerance, ethics, military etc. Countries having more than 20 million people are complex systems and so, shouldn’t be compared with smaller countries for gdb per capita imo. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/113 "2012-07-03T15:20:34Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > Fwiw, **the developed world has always rejected US workplace culture and practices, and very often mocks it**. I was obv. talking about the developed world, not wanting to equate US work culture and practices with the developing world. Maybe the ones who mock\complain are lazy, less ambitious or have no experience about what its like working on big or time critical projects?? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/114 "2012-07-03T15:30:46Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > To put it more simply: who gets to say what the correct “work ethic” is? The people who have to pay for it. > [@amanset](#): > > In other news, of course the whole damn mess started somewhere away from Europe. For some reason I can’t quite remember where … No, Europe’s mess has little to do with the 2008 sub-prime blowout and more to do with low tax collection rates and high levels of entitlements in the PIGS countries (Portuguel, Italy, Greece, Spain) and inherent structural problems with the Eurozone itself. > [@Kevbo](#): > > When people tell me that America is the greatest country on earth, I ask them where else they have lived. Turns out they have mostly visited Mexico as tourists. So where have you lived? > [@Kevbo](#): > > Areas where the US falls significantly short of first world standards: > > -Health care. Twice as expensive, worst outcomes in the developed world. Worse even than many far less developed nations. Yes, I would conceed that for a vast amount of Americans, our health care system sucks. > [@Kevbo](#): > > -Transportation. Outside of perhaps a half dozen urban areas, it is difficult if not impractical to live without access to a private car. For residents in any large European city, owning a car is almost more hassle than it is worth. US drivers are poorly trained, and licensing standards are very lax. many are unable to deal with a roundabout, fail to keep right on interstates, etc. etc. This statement seems absurd to me. Yes, owing a car in a European city is a hassle because their roads are laid out like shit. American cities tend to be newer and have thus been designed for the automobile. But every European city I’ve been in has the same problems of traffic and shitty drivers and whatnot that we do in America. > [@Kevbo](#): > > -Food. Plenty of cheap crappy food. Good food is less available and more expensive than in most places. Availability of cheap crappy prepared food results in many adults that can’t/won’t/don’t cook. 30 years ago I observed that the US failed at Coffee, Beer, and Bread. The first two have been largely solved in the decades since, but it is still hard to find decent bread, and crap bread is still the default. So the greatest country in the world would be Colombia, Belgium or France?😕 ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/115 "2012-07-03T15:33:42Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > No, Europe’s mess has little to do with the 2008 sub-prime blowout and more to do with low tax collection rates and high levels of entitlements in the PIGS countries (Portuguel, Italy, Greece, Spain) and inherent structural problems with the Eurozone itself. You’d have thought that I’d have mentioned tax collection. Oh I did. The problem is the Eurozone (and I have no real thing for the Eurozone, I neither come from nor live in a country that uses the Euro) could have handled things a lot better and easier if there wasn’t a global financial clusterfuck due to, well, you know the rest. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/116 "2012-07-03T15:45:01Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Only if you go by a specific definition of “greatest” (large, with a lot of military assets, maybe?). > > As previously stated, “greatest” is poorly defined. I see nothing preventing say, Luxembourg, from being considered as the greatest nation depending on your criterias. Actually, the greatest country in the world, without question or argument, is the Duchy of Grand Fenwick. End of discussion. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/117 "2012-07-03T15:58:24Z")
> [@Tapiotar](#): > > If the greatest country is based on the happiness of a large number of citizens, here’s one list: > [happiness ranking](http://www.nsf.gov/news/newsmedia/pr111725/pr111725.pdf) > . Your list must be a bit dated, since it includes East and West Germany. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/118 "2012-07-03T16:12:14Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > Smaller countries need not develop all sectors of economy, have international influence and commitments, strong constitution n tolerance, ethics, military etc. Countries having more than 20 million people are complex systems and so, shouldn’t be compared with smaller countries for gdb per capita imo. Just to note that I was surprized to realize that the median population for a country is 4-5 millions. So, countries with more than 20 millions people are in fact already quite large. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/119 "2012-07-03T16:22:04Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > Maybe the ones who mock\complain are lazy, less ambitious or have no experience about what its like working on big or time critical projects?? So the entire rest of the world is composed of lazy unambitious people? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/120 "2012-07-03T16:26:07Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Just to note that I was surprized to realize that the median population for a country is 4-5 millions. So, countries with more than 20 millions people are in fact already quite large. lol, yeah . around 50 of those nations have less than or nearly equal to 100k inhabitants. The mean population comes around 28.9 millions ( = 7000 million / no. of countries i.e 242).😉 > **[List of countries and dependencies by population](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population)** > > This is a list of countries and dependencies by population. It includes sovereign states, inhabited dependent territories and, in some cases, constituent countries of sovereign states, with inclusion within the list being primarily based on the ISO standard ISO 3166-1. For instance, the United Kingdom is considered a single entity, while the constituent countries of the Kingdom of the Netherlands are considered separately. In addition, this list includes certain states with limited recognit... ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/121 "2012-07-03T16:38:17Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > So the entire rest of the world is composed of lazy unambitious people? :rolleyes: I believe not all of the developed world will mock. Only the people who are lazy, less ambitious or having no experience about what its like working on big or time critical projects will mock\complain. I am basing this on my personal n of several friends’ experiences of working for various US n non-US companies . I believe US MNCs have one of the best work culture though there’s always scope for improvement… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836.md?page=7)