# Is America the greatest country on Earth, and why? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 30, 2012, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836 "2012-06-30T19:01:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/142 "2012-07-03T23:09:47Z")
> [@prettyvacant](#): > > fwiw,i remember being shocked by the militarism from the late 80s - the number of people just walking around in one uniform or another long predates 9/11. wolverines!!! ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/143 "2012-07-04T02:17:25Z")
I find this entire thread offensive a day before July 4th, when people all over the world are getting ready to celebrate the birth of America! ---
**Author:** ![egcg75](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a698b9/32.png) [@egcg75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/egcg75)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/144 "2012-07-04T02:25:14Z")
I say that at this very moment, the United States is the absolute best nation on earth. But this is all relative. I say this because that’s where I keep all my stuff, so it’s a little bias… ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/145 "2012-07-04T03:37:02Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Not necessarily - I mean, I _like_ my country (South Africa) well enough, but I’d be a fool to suggest it was the greatest country in the world (it _is_ the greatest country in Africa IMO, but that’s hardly a prize). My vote would go to either Canada or Denmark, I guess, as two places I would actively _want_ to live in. So, since this seems to be fairly representative, your (and others) definition of ‘greatest country on Earth’ is ‘some place I would like to live in’? I ask because, well, does this really seem rational to people? I mean, do you really judge ‘greatest’ \ by whether you have some sort of personal connection or animus about it? So, the greatest scientist wouldn’t be, you know, the person who has the greatest mind, but the one you would like to personally hang out with and have a beer together? Greatest sports person the same? Ah well…that’s why these threads are so hilarious. There is no (to my mind rational) agreed upon definition of what the fuck ‘greatest’ even is, so instead what we get is a bunch of ‘well, I don’t like American because of \ and so really I think that Canada or Belgium are better examples of ‘greatest country on Earth’ because I really like Canada and once I had this girl in Belgium do things you wouldn’t believe…’ > [@](#): > > America’s nice and all, but it’s the _land_ that’s great (and it _is_ awesome - if the debate was “which country is the greatest absent the people”, America definitely gets my vote) not the other stuff. So, America is out of the running because you don’t like Americans? Well, I suppose that’s as good a reason as any put forth in this thread thus far for discounting the US as greatest nation. [QUOTE=msmith537] I find this entire thread offensive a day before July 4th, when people all over the world are getting ready to celebrate the birth of America! [/QUOTE] 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/146 "2012-07-04T08:18:51Z")
> [@XT](#): > > So, since this seems to be fairly representative, your (and others) definition of ‘greatest country on Earth’ is ‘some place I would like to live in’? No, it’s ‘some place I would _really_ like to live in, because of its _many_ attractive qualities’ > [@](#): > > I mean, do you really judge ‘greatest’ \ by whether you have some sort of personal connection or animus about it? Well, yes…“Greatest bar in town”, “greatest movie”, “greatest actor” etc, all involve our subjective likes. “Greatest country” can also be viewed in this sense, otherwise the answer is objectively [Russia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_country_in_the_world)… or, you know, whatever other objective measure of “great” you choose. > [@](#): > > So, the greatest scientist wouldn’t be, you know, the person who has the greatest mind, but the one you would like to personally hang out with and have a beer together? No, because that’s not part of being a scientist, whereas “place people live” is part of being a country, so being good at that makes you a better country. As for scientists - so, is it the person with the greatest IQ, the most Nobel Prizes (has anyone ever won more than one?), the biggest impact? Because if people say “Newton” and I say he was a nutbar, where does that leave us on the objectivity front? > [@](#): > > Greatest sports person the same? Greatest sportsperson _at their sport_? Because the implied OP question is “Greatest country _at being a country_”, and it’s this thread’s job to decide what that means. I’d say “fulfilling the needs of _all_ your citizens” is high on that list, and the US is objectively worse than many others at many metrics. Don’t know how many citizens _need_ to assert military dominance or have a high overall GDP. But to be able to marry whomever you love? To receive medical care when you need it regardless of bank balance. _Not_ to be incarcerated by a racially-biased system? _Not_ to have the blood of hundreds of thousands of innocent foreigners on your conscience? Those are needs _some_ may value highly. For example, in my own subjective criteria list, “Doesn’t legally kill any of its own citizens” is a high priority item for attaining even the semblance of greatness, but others MMV. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/147 "2012-07-04T08:21:28Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > That was only the first sentence of my post. There was more. But that was the only point I wanted to address. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/148 "2012-07-04T08:22:36Z")
> [@XT](#): > > So, America is out of the running because you don’t like Americans? No, it’s out of the running because I value different criteria for greatness than “Throws its weight around” ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/149 "2012-07-04T09:45:56Z")
The main problem here is that “greatness” has connotations of both size and as a superlative. Clearly America is by far the world’s biggest superpower by virtually all meanings of “biggest” (no, not _that_ meaning). If we’re talking best then that’s obviously subjective. IMO I agree with a lot of what they said in _The Newsroom_. I’d say we’re more interested in the US here in Britain than ever before but for all the wrong reasons e.g. The elections are a circus. I can’t believe Quayle got in with “I’m gonna knock the hell out of the place”. Let alone all the politics since of the birthers, all the anyone-but-Romney clowns, “death squads” and other nonsense. I was watching a Maury episode (don’t judge – I was at a friend’s house) and there was a girl with a huge, benign tumour on her face. I assumed that it must be inoperable for some reason. Then at the end of the show they revealed they would pay for her to have it removed, and the penny dropped that it was simply a cost issue. For most of the developed world it’s appalling to see that. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/150 "2012-07-04T09:48:59Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I find this entire thread offensive a day before July 4th, when people all over the world are getting ready to celebrate the birth of America! Oh! Over here, the celebration has been postponed by 10 days. ---
**Author:** ![MyFactCheckBounced](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MyFactCheckBounced](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFactCheckBounced)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/151 "2012-07-04T12:14:51Z")
Did I not say four-down football on page 2? How is this thread still going on? 😃 Happy fourth, everyone! For our un-American readers, the Fourth of July marks the day when Jesus, George Washington, and Adam Smith rode forth against the British and established the rights of all Corporations to be treated equally, and all money to speak in any way it chooses, so long as it does not shout “movie” in a crowded firehouse. Since Will Smith defeated the aliens on July 4th, Independence Day has been observed the world over as a celebration of freedom, _homo sapiens_ pride, and the scrappy resourcefulness that allows a virus written in a completely different environment to infect and disable city-sized spaceships built by a race clever enough to span interstellar distances, yet unable to procure a copy of Norton. And all this despite the fact that you couldn’t get a Mac virus to work on a PC or vice versa without starting the coding all over again. After all that, if you can’t get excited about the United States of America, I don’t know what the hell I’m supposed to do with you. I should have stuck with “We take these truths to be self-evident…” Much stronger position from which to discuss these things. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/152 "2012-07-04T12:27:48Z")
The USA is the greatest currently existing nation. No other nation has the same mix of dynamism, inventions, international strength and responsibility, international leadership, economic output, etc. Historic speaking it is not the greatest. (That’d be Greece) Denmark is supposed to be the happiest nation on Earth. I’m pretty sure they’d be rather less happy if it weren’t for the American protective umbrella, as well as Hollywood movies, Google, Apple, Facebook, etc. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/153 "2012-07-04T12:33:08Z")
You forgot Lady Gaga. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/154 "2012-07-04T13:00:14Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > You forgot Lady Gaga. Her too. She seems to make millions of teenage girls happy. That’s more than both you and me. (Not that I would give making teenage girls happy a shot) ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/155 "2012-07-04T13:18:04Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > But that was the only point I wanted to address. The whole post was a point. By selectively addressing only a fraction of my point, you ended up arguing against a position I did not hold. I said “it’s red and green”, and you quoted “it’s red” and said “no, actually it’s red and green”. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/156 "2012-07-04T15:12:46Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > The whole post was a point. By selectively addressing only a fraction of my point, you ended up arguing against a position I did not hold. I wasn’t arguing _against_ you - I was using your first sentence as a jumping-off point for a slightly different point, and agree with the rest of the post. What I said actually agrees with what you said about it not being a universal rule and all. But it was the first sentence that I wanted to comment on, not just repeat your post an post “…and \*I \*am one of that not insignificant percentage” under it. I’m sorry that it came across that I was removing the context - I didn’t think I’d be on the next page by the time my comment showed up. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/157 "2012-07-04T15:19:28Z")
> [@MyFactCheckBounced](#): > > Did I not say four-down football on page 2? How is this thread still going on? > 😃 > > Happy fourth, everyone! > > For our un-American readers, the Fourth of July marks the day when Jesus, George Washington, and Adam Smith rode forth against the British and established the rights of all Corporations to be treated equally, and all money to speak in any way it chooses, so long as it does not shout “movie” in a crowded firehouse. Since Will Smith defeated the aliens on July 4th, Independence Day has been observed the world over as a celebration of freedom, _homo sapiens_ pride, and the scrappy resourcefulness that allows a virus written in a completely different environment to infect and disable city-sized spaceships built by a race clever enough to span interstellar distances, yet unable to procure a copy of Norton. And all this despite the fact that you couldn’t get a Mac virus to work on a PC or vice versa without starting the coding all over again. > > After all that, if you can’t get excited about the United States of America, I don’t know what the hell I’m supposed to do with you. > > I should have stuck with “We take these truths to be self-evident…” Much stronger position from which to discuss these things. I think you’ll fit in just fine here. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/158 "2012-07-04T15:25:08Z")
> [@Molesworth\_2](#): > > But I don’t abide by arrogance, which your country has in spades. An unfortunate side-effect of being **AWESOME!!** ---
**Author:** ![MyFactCheckBounced](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MyFactCheckBounced](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFactCheckBounced)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/159 "2012-07-04T15:31:59Z")
Nice, msmith. I used to worry about whether people thought Americans were arrogant, but I’m above that now. And if you’re from Europe and aren’t a Commie or a Nazi, may I add, “You’re welcome.” 😃 Okay now I’m just fuggin with ya. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/160 "2012-07-04T16:34:32Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > The USA is the greatest currently existing nation. No other nation has the same mix of dynamism, inventions, international strength and responsibility, international leadership, economic output, etc. Historic speaking it is not the greatest. (That’d be Greece) Denmark is supposed to be the happiest nation on Earth. I’m pretty sure they’d be rather less happy if it weren’t for the American protective umbrella, as well as Hollywood movies, Google, Apple, Facebook, etc. Uh… _Greece_? Really? ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/161 "2012-07-04T16:46:20Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I wasn’t arguing _against_ you - I was using your first sentence as a jumping-off point for a slightly different point, and agree with the rest of the post. What I said actually agrees with what you said about it not being a universal rule and all. But it was the first sentence that I wanted to comment on, not just repeat your post an post “…and \*I \*am one of that not insignificant percentage” under it. > > I’m sorry that it came across that I was removing the context - I didn’t think I’d be on the next page by the time my comment showed up. Fair enough. It just felt like you were contradicting me by agreeing with me. Or something! No worries. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836.md?page=9)