# Is America the greatest country on Earth, and why? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 30, 2012, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836 "2012-06-30T19:01:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Bumbleblee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f0a364/32.png) [@Bumbleblee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbleblee)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/162 "2012-07-04T16:47:21Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > The USA is the greatest currently existing nation. No other nation has the same mix of dynamism, inventions, international strength and responsibility, international leadership, economic output, etc.. That is great to hear. Can you document these claims? > [@Rune](#): > > Historic speaking it is not the greatest. (That’d be Greece) Denmark is supposed to be the happiest nation on Earth. I’m pretty sure they’d be rather less happy if it weren’t for the American protective umbrella Hooray for Danish happiness. Who are they protected from exactly? The Swedes? > [@Rune](#): > > as well as Hollywood movies, Google, Apple, Facebook, etc. And the rest of the world can thank Denmark for Lego. ---
**Author:** ![Bumbleblee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f0a364/32.png) [@Bumbleblee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbleblee)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/163 "2012-07-04T16:49:06Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Uh… _Greece_? Really? I think it is simply yet another example of a poster who doesn’t understand that objective parameteres which all can agree on are needed. ---
**Author:** ![gunnergoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e95f7d/32.png) [@gunnergoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gunnergoz)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/164 "2012-07-04T16:57:01Z")
The Greatest Nation in the World: Now under New Ownership. Franchise opportunities available. Inquire within. (Minimum Net Worth test required for eligibility.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/165 "2012-07-04T16:59:43Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Uh… _Greece_? Really? He’s saying that he thinks Greece was the greatest of all times. Certainly not currently, if that is why you’re puzzled. Not saying I agree, but it’s not a crazy idea. ---
**Author:** ![MyFactCheckBounced](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MyFactCheckBounced](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFactCheckBounced)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/166 "2012-07-04T17:00:24Z")
> [@Bumbleblee](#): > > And the rest of the world can thank Denmark for Lego. I’m pretty sure that’s why they’re so happy. I bet you can buy the original plain old lego bricks there, not pre-formed star wars characters and pre-planned firetrucks. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/167 "2012-07-04T17:03:22Z")
[You can buy plain old Lego bricks anywhere.](http://shop.lego.com/en-US/Pick-A-Brick-ByTheme/?CMP=KAC-SAHGOOGLEUS&HQS=individual+lego+pieces&OVMTC=Broad&site=&creative=11118704641&OVKEY=individual%20lego%20pieces&url_id=93610487&adpos=1t1) ---
**Author:** ![Bumbleblee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f0a364/32.png) [@Bumbleblee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbleblee)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/168 "2012-07-04T17:05:52Z")
> [@MyFactCheckBounced](#): > > I’m pretty sure that’s why they’re so happy. > > I bet you can buy the original plain old lego bricks there, not pre-formed star wars characters and pre-planned firetrucks. You could very well be right there. I LOVED Lego as a child. Just thinking about it makes me want to find the boxes and build castles and space stations (the old ones, not the new Star Wars things). ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/169 "2012-07-04T17:10:11Z")
Heck, it might not even be the greatest country in North America. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/170 "2012-07-04T17:42:52Z")
Happy independence day to all American friends. Hope you have a great time.🙂 Ours is abt a month away… ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/171 "2012-07-04T17:54:06Z")
> [@Bumbleblee](#): > > And the rest of the world can thank Denmark for Lego. Or at least thank them for copying [Kiddicraft](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiddicraft) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/172 "2012-07-04T18:11:56Z")
> [@Bumbleblee](#): > > That is great to hear. Can you document these claims? Couldn’t really be bothered. You can look up things like GDP and patent stats on Wikipedia if you’re interested. > [@Bumbleblee](#): > > Hooray for Danish happiness. Who are they protected from exactly? The Swedes? The Swedes are a bunch of wanker pussies. A Danish high school girls’ hockey team could defeat the combined armed forces of Sweden. The American forces protected Denmark during the Cold War, but it’s not so pressing a concern right at this very moment in time if that is what you are referring to. But one would also be foolish to think the current situation would continue for the next several centuries or more. Although I think the USA is also doing its bits in for instance the waters around Somalia. 10% of the shipping that passes through that region is Danish. (Also: [U.S. raid in Somalia frees U.S., Dane hostages](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=639644)) > [@Bumbleblee](#): > > And the rest of the world can thank Denmark for Lego. Absolutely. Denmark is also a great nation. Incidentally Lego means Leg godt = Play well. My wife’s mother has some bricks from back when they were still made of wood. (She also had a coin operated television in her home) ---
**Author:** ![MyFactCheckBounced](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MyFactCheckBounced](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFactCheckBounced)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/173 "2012-07-04T18:41:09Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > [You can buy plain old Lego bricks anywhere.](http://shop.lego.com/en-US/Pick-A-Brick-ByTheme/?CMP=KAC-SAHGOOGLEUS&HQS=individual+lego+pieces&OVMTC=Broad&site=&creative=11118704641&OVKEY=individual%20lego%20pieces&url_id=93610487&adpos=1t1) OMG I love the interweb. ---
**Author:** ![Bumbleblee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f0a364/32.png) [@Bumbleblee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbleblee)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/174 "2012-07-04T19:05:26Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Couldn’t really be bothered. You can look up things like GDP and patent stats on Wikipedia if you’re interested. So we are essentially back to the usual ‘only large countries should be considered’. > [@Rune](#): > > The Swedes are a bunch of wanker pussies. A Danish high school girls’ hockey team could defeat the combined armed forces of Sweden. How nice. Not arrogant at all. > [@Rune](#): > > The American forces protected Denmark during the Cold War, but it’s not so pressing a concern right at this very moment in time if that is what you are referring to. But one would also be foolish to think the current situation would continue for the next several centuries or more. Although I think the USA is also doing its bits in for instance the waters around Somalia. 10% of the shipping that passes through that region is Danish. (Also: [U.S. raid in Somalia frees U.S., Dane hostages](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=639644)) And Denmark participates in the pirate hunting as well. Who says greatness should be measured in military prowess, btw? Absolutely. Denmark is also a great nation. Incidentally Lego means Leg godt = Play well. My wife’s mother has some bricks from back when they were still made of wood. (She also had a coin operated television in her home) [/QUOTE] I got that box of ancient Lego bricks as well 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![supery00n](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f9b8f/32.png) [@supery00n](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supery00n)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/175 "2012-07-04T19:07:30Z")
It was at one time. But now, it’s probably more of a first among equals. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/176 "2012-07-04T20:57:58Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Heck, it might not even be the greatest country in North America. Then why does the OP say “America” and everyone in this thread knows exactly which country he means? > [@Bumbleblee](#): > > So we are essentially back to the usual ‘only large countries should be considered’. To be “great” you need to have the power and influence to do great things. Fairfield, Connecticut is a smallish city/town a few hours outside of New York City. By many standards including housing costs, crime, so on and so forth, it’s a much better place to live than NYC. But that doesn’t make Fairfield a “great” city in the same way New York is. The OP is disingenuous because it asks why the USA is the “greatest” country but then picks apart every reason it might not be the “best” country. They are not the same thing. Just because a bunch of nerds can snicker about how much of a douche the star quarterback is doesn’t mean they get to go home with the prom queen after the game. ---
**Author:** ![Bumbleblee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f0a364/32.png) [@Bumbleblee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbleblee)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/177 "2012-07-04T21:45:26Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Then why does the OP say “America” and everyone in this thread knows exactly which country he means? > > To be “great” you need to have the power and influence to do great things. > > Fairfield, Connecticut is a smallish city/town a few hours outside of New York City. By many standards including housing costs, crime, so on and so forth, it’s a much better place to live than NYC. But that doesn’t make Fairfield a “great” city in the same way New York is. > > The OP is disingenuous because it asks why the USA is the “greatest” country but then picks apart every reason it might not be the “best” country. They are not the same thing. > > Just because a bunch of nerds can snicker about how much of a douche the star quarterback is doesn’t mean they get to go home with the prom queen after the game. That is your opinion. There are others who think that a country which cares for its citizens and doesnt start wars abroad is a truly great country. Size doesn’t matter in that equation. Once again we are back at the challenge of trying to find some objective parameters which define ‘greatness’. Some value health care and little spending on the military while others prefer a lot of aircraft carries and having a sizeable portion of the population lives on food coupons. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/178 "2012-07-04T22:27:51Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I think you’ll fit in just fine here. I was just thinking the same thing. 🙂 > [@Leaffan](#): > > Heck, it might not even be the greatest country in North America. Ditto. > [@msmith537](#): > > Then why does the OP say “America” and everyone in this thread knows exactly which country he means?\ Cause you guys co-opted the name of the continent that so many of us are living on? ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/179 "2012-07-05T09:55:26Z")
Disclaimer - I’m not American, don’t live in America and don’t have any emotions attached to this, but I think a solid case can be made for American greatness. Definitely better than can be made for other countries. I’m surprised the discussion, particularly on this board, hasn’t focused more on how much America deserves the ‘Greatest’ tag because it has been at the forefront of scientific research for most of the last century. Whatever the reasons (the focus on defence, the large economy, the individualist mindset, the freedom of speech/thought,capitalism), the ecosystem in America is such that with regard to scientific research it is/was the place to be, especially for the latter half of the last century. Look at technology(as currently defined by the news media). Microsoft, Apple, IBM, Google, Facebook, Cisco. Is there anything that happens in the computing world that doesn’t take root in the US? Exceptions that prove the rule, perhaps. Substantial events? Nope. As for science, I propose Nobel prizes as a proxy for measuring achievement. It’s true there are drawbacks in the method, but if anyone has any better ideas, I’ll be glad to listen. As it happens - the research has been done for me in this Forbes [article](http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonbruner/2011/10/05/nobel-prizes-and-american-leadership-in-science-infographic/). It’s crazy by just how much the US has led the scientific field. > [@](#): > > At least one American has won a prize each year since 1935 (excluding the years 1940 through 1942, when no prizes were given out). And the United States became dominant after a very slow start: no American won a science prize in the first six years of the prize’s existence. > The United States is also unique in the scale on which it attracts human capital: of the 314 laureates who won their Nobel prize while working in the U.S., 102 (or 32%) were foreign born, including 15 Germans, 12 Canadians, 10 British, six Russians and six Chinese (twice as many as have received the award while working in China). Compare that to Germany, where just 11 out of 65 Nobel laureates (or 17%) were born outside of Germany (or, while it still existed, Prussia). Or to Japan, which counts no foreigners at all among its nine Nobel laureates. Look at the infographic in the article. It is a pretty stark picture. I think it counts scientists from other countries that did their work in the US, but I think the ability to attract bright minds and give them the resources to work is just as important as the ability to produce them. On this alone I would say America is the greatest country in the world. Which brings me to my second point. Inspite of protestations here from people about how they would like to move to some other country in the world to live, the US remains the top destination for migrants in the [world](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/14/united-states-immigration-numbers-perucca). > [@](#): > > With 43 million foreign nationals on American territory in 2010, according to UN forecasts, the US remains the world’s prime destination for immigration, well ahead of Russia, with 12.3 million immigrants That’s around three and a half _times_ as many people who have voted with their feet for the US than for the next closest country. Gotta count for something. Also, even without moving to the USA, you’re bound to be influenced by its ‘soft power’. American culture is everywhere. You don’t have to like it (and I don’t) to admit that’s not because it’s forced down people’s throats. It is everywhere because it strikes a chord with people. And knock military might all you like, fact is, hard power counts. If you don’t carry a big stick, sooner or later someone who does will walk all over you. When all is said and done, in the final analysis people, societies, countries,get away with what they can. And in that sort of scenario, the only real check on the USA, particularly with the sort of enemies it has today, is internal. Dunno about you, but I think that’s a great position for a country to be in. Maybe even the greatest. So what have we got? Far and away the leader in science and technology, culturally more dominant than any other country, attracts more people to its shores in search of a better life than any other, militarily the most powerful(and IMO much more scrupulous in the use of this power than any other power in a similar situation). Tonnes of other things too, the richest country in the world(leaving out the tinies) on a per capita PPP basis, one of the longest lasting and largest democracies, a great deal of natural beauty and variety, so on and so forth. Against all this, the naysayers have what? Comparatively poor healthcare? Too much religion? Doesn’t take enough care of all its people? I think you guys are spoilt. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/180 "2012-07-05T10:41:31Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > Look at technology(as currently defined by the news media). Microsoft, Apple, IBM, Google, Facebook, Cisco. Is there anything that happens in the computing world that doesn’t take root in the US? Exceptions that prove the rule, perhaps. > [@](#): > > Tonnes of other things too, the richest country in the world(leaving out the tinies) on a per capita PPP basis, one of the longest lasting and largest democracies, a great deal of natural beauty and variety, so on and so forth. Against all this, the naysayers have what? Comparatively poor healthcare? Too much religion? Doesn’t take enough care of all its people? I think you guys are spoilt. Not that I’m interested in arguing for or against the case, but this rhetorical tactic of saying “X, Y, Z are support for my position. Anything you list doesn’t count.” is a bit … unattractive. Especially when you compare some pretty trees against healthcare and declare that the former is a sign of greatness and the latter is insignificant. I probably agree with you overall, but I really dislike those debating tactics. Meh, not that you care, of course. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836/181 "2012-07-05T10:54:54Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > Not that I’m interested in arguing for or against the case, but this rhetorical tactic of saying “X, Y, Z are support for my position. Anything you list doesn’t count.” is a bit … unattractive. > > Especially when you compare some pretty trees against healthcare and declare that the former is a sign of greatness and the latter is insignificant. > > I probably agree with you overall, but I really dislike those debating tactics. Meh, not that you care, of course. Sure, ok. I can tend to get a little too cocky. And you’re probably right that supergood universal healthcare and social safety nets wouldn’t go a long way with me. However, in this case my position is (perhaps only slightly) more nuanced . I say ‘comparatively poor’ healthcare. Doesn’t take ‘enough care’ of all it’s people. Even if you care about these things, it’s not like the US does not do, or does a horrible terrible job of all these things. Maybe it doesn’t do the best job. But against that, you have a huge number of positives. My point was more that if you consider a wide spectrum of issues, the US is likely to be very high up or at the top of the list on many, and middling but not awful in the others. And to pick those and say the US is not on the whole great, or the greatest, is to be quite blinkered in your outlook. Edit: Now I get your pretty trees comment :smack: Honestly? That was just a throwaway list extender that I took from some post up above. I’m reasonably sure I could find a bunch of other things if I took some time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-the-greatest-country-on-earth-and-why/626836.md?page=10)