# Is America to Afraid to Racial Profile **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 22, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-to-afraid-to-racial-profile/582817 "2011-05-22T21:36:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-to-afraid-to-racial-profile/582817/21 "2011-05-22T23:01:52Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > You’re funny. No those are the facts. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-to-afraid-to-racial-profile/582817/22 "2011-05-22T23:17:31Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > A lot of the racial profiling is anti-terrorist which would target largely Arabs and Muslims who are on the whole fairly wealthy and are small business owners, professionals, and so on. Oh, please. First, most racial profiling has nothing to do with terrorism and never has. And second, racial profiling against “Arabs and Muslims” (the latter of whom aren’t even a race) is even more useless than ordinary racial profiling since terrorists are such a minuscule minority among them. You aren’t likely to do more than harass innocent people and [create embarrassing incidents](http://articles.cnn.com/2011-05-07/travel/muslims.kicked.off.plane_1_muslim-group-muslim-community-ibrahim-hooper?_s=PM:TRAVEL). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-to-afraid-to-racial-profile/582817/23 "2011-05-22T23:25:43Z")
> [@chiefwhitesr](#): > > There is a lot more to profiling than race but starting with known race or associates of a member who is a terrorist’s race is common sense. Do you have any concerns that profiling has the potential to alienate the Muslim community, reducing their willingness to provide valuable leads about radical activities? It seems to me that treating all Muslims as suspects will foster greater suspicion of the authorities, cutting us off from a valuable form of intelligence. Moderate American Muslims form our first line of defense against the radicals, and cavalierly sacrificing that line of defense seems ill-advised. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-to-afraid-to-racial-profile/582817/24 "2011-05-22T23:31:32Z")
> [@chiefwhitesr](#): > > Although recently ruled on as unconstitutional the thought of racial profiling seems appropriate to me as an Officer of Independent Intelligence. As a Security Officer I am bound to follow every lead based on what I know, not based on what the limitations of a Judge says. If racial profiling is unconstitutional I’ll kiss some serious butt, but I don’t in my heart of hearts believe it is. There is a lot more to profiling than race but starting with known race or associates of a member who is a terrorist’s race is common sense. > > Sincerely White Sr. > > P.S. > No disrespect to Judicial members. That’s what I am required as an Officer of Candor to reply to. How does racial profiling help you pick out The Unibomber Tim McVeigh Terry Nichols or pick out members of Army of God KKK The Aryan Nation The Order All white groups and white people. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-to-afraid-to-racial-profile/582817/25 "2011-05-22T23:32:30Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Oh, please. First, most racial profiling has nothing to do with terrorism and never has. And second, racial profiling against “Arabs and Muslims” (the latter of whom aren’t even a race) is even more useless than ordinary racial profiling since terrorists are such a minuscule minority among them. You aren’t likely to do more than harass innocent people and [create embarrassing incidents](http://articles.cnn.com/2011-05-07/travel/muslims.kicked.off.plane_1_muslim-group-muslim-community-ibrahim-hooper?_s=PM:TRAVEL). I don’t support profiling anyone. I’m just saying who they will profile if profiling happens. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-to-afraid-to-racial-profile/582817/26 "2011-05-22T23:37:20Z")
> [@](#): > > You presume that’s because they are actually guilty of crimes, instead of just being guilty of having less wealth & power. In other words, the OP assumes that the US does not profile racially, and then on the basis of that assumption, comes to the conclusion that we should. But the same fact set could lead one to the assumption that we _do_ profile racially, but shouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-to-afraid-to-racial-profile/582817/27 "2011-05-22T23:39:20Z")
> [@chiefwhitesr](#): > > As a Security Officer I am bound to follow every lead based on what I know, not based on what the limitations of a Judge says. Meh, forget the race crap. Your premise is a fascist police state even before the pointless profiling. So what if you can’t get that search warrant, you know he’s guilty so kick in that door! Search and seizure laws never benefited anyone but the guilty, am I right? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-to-afraid-to-racial-profile/582817/28 "2011-05-22T23:39:44Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > I’m just saying who they will profile if profiling happens. Except that you’re wrong. They’ll profile according to whatever particular bigotries and political agendas they have. They’ll harass people for being brown, or ACLU, or Democrat, or Muslim, or gay, or poor. Profiling is _about_ bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-to-afraid-to-racial-profile/582817/29 "2011-05-22T23:41:34Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Except that you’re wrong. They’ll profile according to whatever particular bigotries and political agendas they have. They’ll harass people for being brown, or ACLU, or Democrat, or Muslim, or gay, or poor. Profiling is _about_ bigotry. And the main political agenda would be against Arabs or Muslims (sadly considered synonymous by many) although fundamentalist Christians might get targeted depending on whose in the Oval Office (as in Europe). ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-to-afraid-to-racial-profile/582817/30 "2011-05-22T23:45:11Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > And the main political agenda would be against Arabs or Muslims (sadly considered synonymous by many) although fundamentalist Christians might get targeted depending on whose in the Oval Office (as in Europe). An American President having the guts to offend right wing Christians? Not a chance. They are politically powerful, and therefore if anything get reverse profiling; the authorities often go out of their way to ignore threats and crimes by Christian and right wing organizations. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Bith_Shuffle)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-to-afraid-to-racial-profile/582817/31 "2011-05-22T23:46:20Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Except that you’re wrong. They’ll profile according to whatever particular bigotries and political agendas they have. They’ll harass people for being brown, or ACLU, or Democrat, or Muslim, or gay, or poor. Profiling is _about_ bigotry. Governments and police forces are apt to act out their biases in enforcement. I think this goes without saying. But when you say “Profiling is _about_ bigotry,” I can’t help but think, can’t profiling be useful simply because some groups actually commit more of certain crimes than others? We do not live in a world in which crime-committing is neither positively nor negatively correlated with every other identifiable trait of a person. We will always live in a world in which desperate people commit more violent crimes than comfortable people do, and we will always live in a world in which men commit rape more than women do. I could go on and on but… ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-to-afraid-to-racial-profile/582817/32 "2011-05-22T23:49:23Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > An American President having the guts to offend right wing Christians? Not a chance. They are politically powerful, and therefore if anything get reverse profiling; the authorities often go out of their way to ignore threats and crimes by Christian and right wing organizations. There is a difference between the Evangelicals who do have some political clout and those who are just loony tunes and plot rebellion and whatnot (such as the Ruby Ridge or Waco people) ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-to-afraid-to-racial-profile/582817/33 "2011-05-22T23:56:21Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > although fundamentalist Christians might get targeted depending on whose in the Oval Office (as in Europe). Cite? Preferable something on par with the head covering ban in France. Other than one couple having an adoption blocked I don’t know of anything done by an EU government. > [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](#): > > I can’t help but think, can’t profiling be useful simply because some groups actually commit more of certain crimes than others? Only if you buy “guilty until proven innocent” as the rule. Profiling forces you to prove that you’re not like someone who shares the same skin color or style of dress. Should every white male be treated as a presidential assassin until they can prove themselves otherwise because all presidential assassin’s have been white men? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-to-afraid-to-racial-profile/582817/34 "2011-05-23T00:01:17Z")
> [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](#): > > Governments and police forces are apt to act out their biases in enforcement. I think this goes without saying. But when you say “Profiling is _about_ bigotry,” I can’t help but think, can’t profiling be useful simply because some groups actually commit more of certain crimes than others? Doesn’t matter if it can; what matters is how people who profile _actually act_ in the real world. > [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > There is a difference between the Evangelicals who do have some political clout and those who are just loony tunes and plot rebellion and whatnot (such as the Ruby Ridge or Waco people) You presume that those are mutually exclusive categories. Violent right wing & Christian groups like that tend to be ignored until they make such a spectacle of themselves that doing so is no longer politically possible. Meanwhile, far less extreme left wing groups and organizations get constantly harassed and spied on. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-to-afraid-to-racial-profile/582817/35 "2011-05-23T00:01:18Z")
> [@Oldeb](#): > > Cite? Preferable something on par with the head covering ban in France. Other than one couple having an adoption blocked I don’t know of anything done by an EU government. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British\_National\_Party#Claims\_of\_repression\_of\_free\_speech](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_National_Party#Claims_of_repression_of_free_speech) Yes, the BNP are a bunch of quasi-Nazis/racists but they aren’t a terrorist organization and shouldn’t be subject to such persecution. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-to-afraid-to-racial-profile/582817/36 "2011-05-23T00:28:20Z")
For an extreme example of profiling that was a disaster that only stoked the problems it was trying to eliminate read up on [Operation Demetrius](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Demetrius). ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-to-afraid-to-racial-profile/582817/37 "2011-05-23T00:51:23Z")
I grew up in Newport RI and knew a few people in bombed with the SEALS. Perhaps the Chief could help me with something that slipped my mind during a recent conversation. What is the nickname SEALS use for every CMDC. I remember it being a cool nickname, but I can’t remember what it was. Beyond that, I’m surprised he’s advocating it since the US military objects strongly to using it. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-to-afraid-to-racial-profile/582817/38 "2011-05-23T00:58:01Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I grew up in Newport RI and knew a few people in bombed with the SEALS. > > Perhaps the Chief could help me with something that slipped my mind during a recent conversation. > > What is the nickname SEALS use for every CMDC. > > I remember it being a cool nickname, but I can’t remember what it was. Darn, I wonder what Admiral Akbar would call this. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-to-afraid-to-racial-profile/582817/39 "2011-05-23T00:59:48Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > What is the nickname SEALS use for every CMDC. > > I remember it being a cool nickname, but I can’t remember what it was. [Rex? Fido?](http://www.acronymfinder.com/Certified-Mold-Detection-Canine-%28CMDC%29.html) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-to-afraid-to-racial-profile/582817/40 "2011-05-23T01:06:11Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > Darn, I wonder what Admiral Akbar would call this. Huh, The US Navy believes in racial profiling, therefore there are no Muslm Admirals in the US Navy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-to-afraid-to-racial-profile/582817.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-america-to-afraid-to-racial-profile/582817.md?page=3)