Is American Indian culture seen through rose colored glasses?

2 points:

  1. Grammar schools have always idolized and oversimplified history - it was just with a different bias when we were kids.

  2. I shake my head at how you tried to deal with a nine-year-old. Be happy he was interested in something academic. There’s plenty of time to be disillusioned later on.

Yep. Wish one had occurred recently enough to do that. The stories are all at least thirty years old. :slight_smile:

I’ve tried to track down some of these stories, honest. There’s been at least one story (about a frozen mastodon/mammoth) that came with a name, but the guy had been dead for about ten years when I heard it, and relatives were unable to provide evidence. Or provide enough clues for anyone to go find out. (synopsis: found frozen mastodon/mammoth, ate some and fed the rest to his dogs. A fine, fat, healthy winter for all, apparently. )

Perhaps “rarely” would have been a better word choice than “occasionally”.

I’m perfectly willing to accept that these are Rural Legends (as opposed to Urban ones), but you know, just because it’s a legend doesn’t always mean there’s not a grain of truth in there somewhere… I’d prefer to be open-minded about it. Less offensive to the teller of tales, and less embarrassing when proven, one way or t’other. (Although I likely WOULD end up rudely laughing if someone claimed to see a T. Rex. And I’m pretty sure that Tagish Elvis is exceedingly unbalanced, as opposed to the alien-induced reincarnation of Elvis Presley. I’ll revise my opinion on THAT one after the aliens land and tell us so.)

There’s an awful lot of country up here, and some of it rarely sees human presence. It is entirely plausible to me that a hunter/trapper could have happened on one of these things, recently thawed, and report it to the village as a fresh death - some of the reports I’ve read about the frozen mastodon/mammoth phenomenon remark on how well-preserved some were.

Yeah, yeah, just because it’s plausible doesn’t make it true. I know.

:checks forum:

Yep. IMHO. Not GD. I am so allowed to have unsupported opinions in here. :smiley:

Fascinating review of the new Museum of the American Indian from the NY Times. Author Rothstein says that there’s some fantastic art and intriguing architecture, but basically it fails

He basically says it engages in the same misty romanticism that the OP is concerned with, and does not full the function of a true anthropological museum: What did people want in life? How did they deal with the challenges? How did the rich and poor live (and if there was relative social equality, how was it achieved?) What was a typical day like for a man, a woman, a warrior, a farmer, a nomad? What was a “successful” life by Indian standards? Instead, as he notes about the Pueblo exhibit,

Of course, if one of the rules of Fight Cl–uh, that particular religion is that you don’t blab its details on a wall seen by (ideally) four million people a year, then say that!

Ayup. I’ll go to the Museum if I’m in DC, I guess, but looks like I’ll need to head to the library for anything deeper.

tisiphone, thanks for the info! I have a question that’s a little OT–I’ve been to the Indian museums in NYC and Alburquerque but amongst the literature and songs there was one thing I found missing–love songs. I suppose that every tribe did things a bit differently but in general, given the small gene pool of many tribes, were marriages in the old days arranged for political or social or clan advantage, or were women just kidnapped from elsewhere, or were there sometimes genuine love matches? All I saw were love myths about beautiful girls and gods, which sounds pretty Greek :smiley: but doesn’t help me much with everyday folks.

I’m surprised no one has mentioned Disney yet. I haven’t seen Lilo and Stitch, but I remember there were complaints about the way the Native Hawaiians (Lilo and her family) were portrayed. Considering their reputation, I’m sure there are other examples.

Sorry I can’t search out the actual posts, but as my toolbar has just dissapeared, and a minimized screen dropped into a void somewhere at the bottom of my screen (I was testing), I’m just kind of WTF right now.

There’s been a big dispute about what caused the megafauna die-off in the Americas. The evidence, while not conclusive, indicates it happened around the same time as the first humans entered the Americas. Which would tend to support the theory that the reason all those species went extinct is because people ate them.

I also remember reading once that one of the reasons the Iroquois people were able to establish a prosperous and peaceful nation was because they had conquered a whole bunch of land from the surrounding tribes and either killed or evicted everyone else.

The Cherokees saw which way the wind was blowing and figured they should assilimate as much white culture as they could. One of the cultural institutions which they embraced was slavery.

Umm. Best I could probably do is talk about Tutchone customs. The rest I only know broad, sweeping generalizations about, such as marriages were arranged for all the reasons you listed above.

Take me a bit, though. I actually gotta work today.

There are Tutchone love songs, as well as some comic love songs - the Tutchone have one heckuva sense of humour. Although it does tend toward the exceedingly earthy. :smiley:

Can’t believe this thread has got so far without anyone mentioning the myth of the noble savage. Basically Europeans liked to romanticise about the lifestyle of the peoples they were invading.

Unfortunately there isn’t much real evidence to suggest that the peoples of Northern America were any nobler than the rest of the planet. They just hadn’t reached the stage of society and population size where they could screw up the environment to the same extent. Given the chance, and a few more hundred years they’d have got there themselves. At the end of the day all cultures are pretty much the same; all human with the same weaknesses.

Which Indian culture?

The east coast and west coast Indians probably never was a buffalo in their entire lives.

Sorry, but that isn’t how it works. The burden of proof is on the people making such fantastical claims without a shred of objective evidence to prove that such things exist, not on everyone else to prove they don’t.

or

“The rodents of unusual size? I don’t believe they exist!”

How about several credible ones? Or one clear, unquestionable photograph?

You’ve seen them on TV, surely? A Jaques Cousteau special perhaps? I know I have.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, indeed. Isn’t that one of Randi’s maxims?

Anyways, the newspaper cites on eating the mammoth stuff came from the following book Strange Stories of Alaska and the Yukon, by Ed Ferrell. Can’t find my copy, I think Mom has it. Anyways, the book is filled with clippings on odd occurrences reported in local papers during and shortly after the Klondike Gold Rush. Most of it is the usual Lost Mines, Ghostly Appearances, and suchlike, but there’s a few, a very few, that come with enough detail to make me go “I wonder…”, such as the petrified forest supposedly near Dawson City.

Just to put the finishing touches on any credibility whatsoever, a link to a recent Yukon sasquatch sighting. :smiley:

As I have not laid eyes on the alleged sasquatches yet myself, I’m not entirely buying it either. Not without good, clear photos, or DNA, or other inarguable evidence.

Gotta say, though, Gus Jules has been Vouched For as not being another drunk with the DT’s, and he’s been in the bush long enough to know a bear from a buttcrack.

Still not saying he saw a sasquatch, though.