# Is American/Western culture "better" than other world cultures? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 1, 2009, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-american-western-culture-better-than-other-world-cultures/515966 "2009-11-01T18:51:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-american-western-culture-better-than-other-world-cultures/515966/41 "2009-11-07T22:50:20Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > … > With the marines employed around the world as corporate shock troops since 1898, much of our “abundance” has been outright stolen. > [@msmith537](#): > > … > Well…except that it hasn’t. Well, except maybe from the Indians but I don’t think that’s what you meant. Well, no I didn’t but now that you mention it. And let’s not forget the Mexican War.🙂 Nope. I’m referring to the public record history of dozens of our “interventions” (beginning with John Hay’s “splendid little [Spanish American] war” on the behalf of the Cuban people) which ended up installing and maintaining repressive dictatorships friendly to our corporate investment interests. Puuulease don’t get me started. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-american-western-culture-better-than-other-world-cultures/515966/42 "2009-11-08T04:18:12Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > Let me rephrase my question. Is it a sin to believe that there are errors in the Bible? No unless one denies the Trinity or some other core doctrine from intepreting the perceived “errors”. Also I think the term you are talking about is “misinterpreted passages”. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-american-western-culture-better-than-other-world-cultures/515966/43 "2009-11-08T04:28:03Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > This actually may come as a shock, but a lot of countries don’t want to import our high culture of fast food restaurants, big box stores, NASCAR, rampant consumerism, obesity, alchoholism, xenophobia, apathy and entitlement. if the only culture you see in america is fast food, Nascar and alcoholism, I feel sorry for you. Those are side effects that can be cured–but only AFTER a country has established a stable culture .You know, a _good_ culture: where people trust the government, know that there will always be food at the supermarket, and don’t expect to routinely pay bribes to the local police chief. > [@](#): > > Maybe because they actually want to sound “educated”? yes, an educated person _can_ tell the difference between a good culture and a bad one, and then proudly say so out loud, without the need to use the quote marks. If you can’t go to Zimbabwe, walk 400 yards across the bridge at El Paso Texas to Juarez Mexico. Where do you prefer to live? Or are you too “Educated” to tell me?. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-american-western-culture-better-than-other-world-cultures/515966/44 "2009-11-08T04:33:07Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > yes, an educated person _can_ tell the difference between a good culture and a bad one, and then proudly say so out loud, without the need to use the quote marks. > Walk 400 yards across the bridge at El Paso Texas to Juarez Mexico. Where do you prefer to live? > Or are you too “Educated” to tell me?. 'Cause those are the only choices, the third world or the US. France, Italy, Japan, Spain, the UK, Norway, Sweden, Iceland, Germany, and Australia are all place I’ve visited that would be great places to live. ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-american-western-culture-better-than-other-world-cultures/515966/45 "2009-11-08T07:41:18Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > France, Italy, Japan, Spain, the UK, Norway, Sweden, Iceland, Germany, and Australia are all place I’ve visited that would be great places to live. In all fairness, it was Europe that defined “Western” culture. It was the West, versus the near and far East. Where the East is what we would now call the Arab states, plus the Ottoman Empire, and the Far East was India, China, Japan etc. For the US to call itself a Western culture is to derive it values from those it inherited from Europe. The new world - the USA, Australia, NZ, Canada, is an add on. Still Western, but not defining Western culture. A famous quote. When Ghandi was asked what he thought of Western Civilization, he replied that he thought it would be a good idea. There is an underlying thread here, that is worth mentioning. Many of the definitions of “better” have as their basis the metric “a culture that meets my ideal” and coming from someone born and brought up in the West, you run the risk of defining better as “more Western.” And by default, the West does Western culture better than the rest. It is worth trying to divorce economic success from culture. This is the Guns, Germs and Steel argument from Jarad Diamond. Europe sprang into economic success on the back of steel, and the main reason it did so was that, unlike pretty much anywhere else in the world, the three raw materials: iron ore, limestone, and coal, were available within animal cart distance of one another, and in large quantities. Here in Australia we have enough raw steel making materials to utterly dwarf all that Europe ever had. But they are thousands of miles apart. Without bootstrapping from a country that already could make steel we could never have done so. The USA with its utterly massive natural resources, once kick started from Europe, was always going to become a pre-eminent power. So long as it was unified. The accident of history that made it so was that the USA was federated and unified under a common language. Consider the possible history of the world for the last century if the USA was still the mix of French, Spanish, German and English speaking peoples, in seperate countries, as defined by early settlement. It could have happened. Imagine what the two world wars might have played out like. This is historical versus cultural imperitives at work. Want a totally different take on “better” culture? Try Bhutan. It isn’t rich, it isn’t trouble free, it isn’t paradise on a stick. But it is pretty darned nice, and if I had to choose somewhere else to live, I would consider it, if I could. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-american-western-culture-better-than-other-world-cultures/515966/46 "2009-11-08T16:50:51Z")
> [@TurboNuke](#): > > One of the reasons I don’t like Democrats/liberals is multiculturalism. I don’t believe in multiculturalism. There are some cultures that are better than others. We should be trying to encourage “good” cultural values and preventing “bad” ones. American culture is not the best but one of the better ones and we should be working to improve it by integrating the “good” parts of other cultures. How would you apply this to cultural differences within the United States? After all states like California and New York quite a different culture compared to states like Oklahoma and Alabama. And the former are richer and far more important culturally and economically than the latter. They have far more universities, museums, corporate headquarters and so on. Would you be OK with the idea that they represent a superior culture to other poorer states within the United States? One of the ironies of this kind of discussion is that the kind of people who are most eager to bellow about the superiority of American culture are often the most easily offended by what the perceive as the condescension of bi-coastal elites towards “flyover country”. They can dish it out but apparently can’t take it. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-american-western-culture-better-than-other-world-cultures/515966/47 "2009-11-08T16:53:39Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > The simple fact is that some cultures are good— and some aren’t. > And it is very sad that so many educated people are embarrassed to state that fact out loud. Educated people and simple facts don’t get along. All that questioning, dissecting, examining, and discussing. Such a waste of minds. So sad. So very sad. Like hell it is. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-american-western-culture-better-than-other-world-cultures/515966/48 "2009-11-08T17:43:26Z")
> [@bump](#): > > the Mexicans here drive the shittiest beaters, but in Mexico they’re not quite so bad. You just don’t know the right Mexicans. In my region- and you can see them on display by the hundreds in a sort of parade on Cinco de Mayo- the Mexicans’ cars _Absolutely Kick Ass!!!_ I just can’t stress that enough. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-american-western-culture-better-than-other-world-cultures/515966/49 "2009-11-08T18:00:33Z")
> [@TurboNuke](#): > > Mexicans seem to be a hard working people. Then why does Mexico suck? I’d say it has something to do with the culture of Mexico. We can’t let them import that crappy culture into the US. Therefore I believe in limiting immigration from Mexico to what we can integrate. It is because their economy is dominated by a very small group of extremely wealthy individuals, and everyone else is left to eat shit. It is very much like the Republican Dream come to fruition. I don’t know about limiting immigration or not… sticky issue. But if you want to prevent this country from resembling Mexico, limit Republicans, not Mexicans. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-american-western-culture-better-than-other-world-cultures/515966/50 "2009-11-08T18:10:07Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > One of the ironies of this kind of discussion is that the kind of people who are most eager to bellow about the superiority of American culture are often the most easily offended by what the perceive as the condescension of bi-coastal elites towards “flyover country”. They can dish it out but apparently can’t take it. Obviously New England has the best culture. It’s better than the South in almost every possible way you can measure: education, wealth, health, divorce rate, longevity, murder rate, obesity, speed of talking, and lack of NASCAR. For some reason it’s not “politically correct” to mention that. “Educated” people are too “hip” to say it out loud. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-american-western-culture-better-than-other-world-cultures/515966/51 "2009-11-08T22:53:33Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > if the only culture you see in america is fast food, Nascar and alcoholism, I feel sorry for you. Sorry. I left out Ed Hardy, Dane Cook, reality television and Michael Bay. > [@chappachula](#): > > If you can’t go to Zimbabwe, walk 400 yards across the bridge at El Paso Texas to Juarez Mexico. Where do you prefer to live? > Or are you too “Educated” to tell me?. Maybe you should also check out the culture of places like Detroit, MI or Flint, MI. Since you keep referring to educated people in the third person, I have to assume you aren’t one. Most educated people realize that you can’t simply sum up an entire nation’s art, history, beliefs, legal system, government, religeon, and economy and just make a simplistic comparison of one being better than the other. Better at what? Educating and providing for it’s citizens? Greating great works of art or literature? Showing tolerance towards other cultures and ways of life? “Multiculturalism” isn’t about saying “anything goes”. It’s about learning and understanding why people from different parts of the world believe and act the way they do. You are the one I feel sorry for if you think the the United States is the height of world culture. The United States is a few hundred years old. Some of the countries I’m sure you consider “inferior” have cultures thousands of years old. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-american-western-culture-better-than-other-world-cultures/515966/52 "2009-11-08T23:59:17Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Sort of… > > I gather that despite the amazing poverty of many Mexican communities here in the us, especially those with a large proportion of illegal aliens, it’s still a better deal to live here in a sort of little Mexico than back home. And in many of their cases (not all, unfortunately), their children will be pretty integrated into wider American society. > > What I don’t get though, is that a lot of the Mexican community stuff in the US seems _crappier_ than in Mexico. I mean, amateurish painted letters and comically bad signs are common here, but in Mexico, the signs are actually painted well, by and large. Same thing with cars; the Mexicans here drive the shittiest beaters, but in Mexico they’re not quite so bad. Sitting in my driveway at this moment are a 2009 VW Bora, a 2007 Toyota Tacoma and a 2004 VW Jetta. I would bet that there is more expensive steel sitting there than in many of the American posters’ driveways. And ours is a modest collection in our neighborhood. How much and in what parts of Mexico have you spent time? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-american-western-culture-better-than-other-world-cultures/515966/53 "2009-11-09T01:06:13Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > You are the one I feel sorry for if you think the the United States is the height of world culture. The United States is a few hundred years old. Some of the countries I’m sure you consider “inferior” have cultures thousands of years old. Most of the middle east has been twiddling their thumbs for 2 to 4 thousand years culture wise and even most of the people living there arent very happy IMO, much less the fact that very little of the rest of the world actually WANTS to move there to live. A long lived culture dont mean much IMO. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-american-western-culture-better-than-other-world-cultures/515966/54 "2009-11-09T01:08:11Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > Sitting in my driveway at this moment are a 2009 VW Bora, a 2007 Toyota Tacoma and a 2004 VW Jetta. I would bet that there is more expensive steel sitting there than in many of the American posters’ driveways. And ours is a modest collection in our neighborhood. > > How much and in what parts of Mexico have you spent time? THATS the mecca millions of folks leave, risking their lives in the process, to come to america to mow lawns for minimum wage ? Who knew ? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-american-western-culture-better-than-other-world-cultures/515966/55 "2009-11-09T02:12:35Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Most of the middle east has been twiddling their thumbs for 2 to 4 thousand years culture wise and even most of the people living there arent very happy IMO, much less the fact that very little of the rest of the world actually WANTS to move there to live. > > A long lived culture dont mean much IMO. I don’t think most people living here in the US are very happy (or healthy) IMO. I’m curious. Have you actually been out of the US or met a significant number of people from another country? > [@DanBlather](#): > > Obviously New England has the best culture. He’s talking about New York City. > [@orcenio](#): > > 1. I don’t see how you can realistically say that a shockingly diverse place like say… India lacks “the raw [cultural] diversity of the West (which was spawned by the fractured nature of Europe).” > > Man, any conceivable example of culture whether: religious, linguistical, ethnic, political, historical, urban/rural, etc… India is FAR more diverse. Europe’s nothing like that. Because they are all brown people and are therefore all must be part of the same homogenious culture. Sort of like all of South America or Asia. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-american-western-culture-better-than-other-world-cultures/515966/56 "2009-11-09T15:23:37Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > THATS the mecca millions of folks leave, risking their lives in the process, to come to america to mow lawns for minimum wage ? > > Who knew ? Yes I know, at least Americans don’t need to leave their country to risk their lives everyday. All they must do is go to work or to school or some other public or private place and some crazy person with a gun will use them for target practice. That is truly paradise, don’t you agree? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-american-western-culture-better-than-other-world-cultures/515966/57 "2009-11-10T15:13:28Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Most of the middle east has been twiddling their thumbs for 2 to 4 thousand years culture wise The volume of sheer ignorance packed into that one offhand statement is absolutely breathtaking. Oh well, so much for the Babylonian invention of mathematical astronomy, arts and trade in the medieval Islamic empire, the unprecedented development of hospitals and educational institutions in the Islamic world, Persian classical music, the “Afro-Asiatic age of discovery” in geographical exploration, and an innumerable host of other remarkable cultural landmarks in world history that **billfish** never happened to hear of, so he blithely assumes that no such landmarks exist. > [@Francis Vaughan](#): > > There is an underlying thread here, that is worth mentioning. Many of the definitions of “better” have as their basis the metric “a culture that meets my ideal” and coming from someone born and brought up in the West, you run the risk of defining better as “more Western.” And by default, the West does Western culture better than the rest. Good point. Another factor is the inevitable tendency for members of a given culture to concentrate not only their ideals but their knowledge in the familiar context of their own culture. I hope that not many people attain the gobsmacking level of naive ignorance displayed by **billfish** ’s assertions, but all of us are to some extent inclined to think that our own culture’s accomplishments are the best because they’re the ones we’re best informed about. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-american-western-culture-better-than-other-world-cultures/515966.md?page=2)