# Is Amishism a Religion? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 7, 2005, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-amishism-a-religion/288825 "2005-02-07T16:34:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jester21](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed655f/32.png) [@jester21](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jester21)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-amishism-a-religion/288825/1 "2005-02-07T16:34:05Z")
Do the Amish have thier own religion? If so, what is it based on? If not, what religion do they practice? Also, are the Amish considered a “race”? Kinda like Jews are both a race and a religion. These Q’s came up when watching the rancid film “The Village” as they struck me as Amish-like. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-amishism-a-religion/288825/2 "2005-02-07T16:48:09Z")
> [@jester21](#): > > Do the Amish have thier own religion? If so, what is it based on? If not, what religion do they practice? > > Also, are the Amish considered a “race”? Kinda like Jews are both a race and a religion. > These Q’s came up when watching the rancid film “The Village” as they struck me as Amish-like. The largest Amish sect is called Old Order Amish Mennonite Church, and it’s about 350 years old. It broke off of the Mennonite religion, which is about 600 years old. The word “race” is a pretty loaded term and doesn’t really apply here; we’re talking about a religious group that dates from the 1640s, well after the time of Shakespeare and the writing of the King James Bible; Judaism, by comparison, is several thousand years old, predates most written records, and has its own languages and alphabet. A somewhat better movie to watch about the Amish is _Witness_ with Harrison Ford. Some authorities have chided this film for accuracy, but I say, if they were watch8ing a movie, how authoritative can they really be? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-amishism-a-religion/288825/3 "2005-02-07T16:59:43Z")
Who thinks of Jews as being a race? An ethnic group, perhaps, and a religion definitely, but didn’t the last bunch of people who thought of a Jews as a race put them in the gas ovens? ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-amishism-a-religion/288825/4 "2005-02-07T17:03:44Z")
[Here](http://www.religioustolerance.org/amish.htm) is a good link for the Amish. And **Giles** , I know Jews who refer to Jews as a race (as well as others who don’t). It’s a little early in the thread to invoke the Holocaust. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-amishism-a-religion/288825/5 "2005-02-07T17:10:56Z")
The Amish do tend to be of Germanic stock, so it wouldn’t be inaccurate to refer to them as an ethnic group as well. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-amishism-a-religion/288825/6 "2005-02-07T17:15:25Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > And **Giles** , I know Jews who refer to Jews as a race (as well as others who don’t). It’s a little early in the thread to invoke the Holocaust. I apologise if the reference offended you, but I really can’t think of any level at which it’s appropriate to think of Jews as a race, any more than calling Muslims or Russians a race. So suggesting that sort of destroys the point of the question, “are the Amish considered a ‘race’?” ---
**Author:** ![jester21](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed655f/32.png) [@jester21](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jester21)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-amishism-a-religion/288825/7 "2005-02-07T17:33:43Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > I apologise if the reference offended you, but I really can’t think of any level at which it’s appropriate to think of Jews as a race, any more than calling Muslims or Russians a race. So suggesting that sort of destroys the point of the question, “are the Amish considered a ‘race’?” but I thought Jewish people _were_ a race… and Krokadil points out, even Jews consider themselves a race… now granted… i personally think calling jews a race is rather silly… but i was under the impression that it was standard… Anyway… the point of the Question was… do the Amish consider themselves to be a seperate race/ethnic group/wutever PC name you wish to call it? … or are they default white? (as FriarTed alluded that they derive from Germanic stock) Or is white not PC either anymore? Caucasian-American if you please. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-amishism-a-religion/288825/8 "2005-02-07T17:42:10Z")
JFTR, “race” is a common but less-than-accurate way of referencing an ethnic group. None of the “major races of humanity” is ethnically monolithic – they all have a wide range of characteristics included within them. As for the basic question, Amish are a _cultural group_ who practice the variant on Menno Simons’s beliefs advocated by Jacob Ammann, in terms of religious attachment, and who reject much of modern culture as contrary to their way of life, for reasonably sound if peculiar-sounding reasons. (Compare the “back to nature” school of thought of the 1960s counterculture to ascertain the rationality of their cultural mindset.) ---
**Author:** ![jester21](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed655f/32.png) [@jester21](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jester21)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-amishism-a-religion/288825/9 "2005-02-07T17:49:30Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > JFTR, “race” is a common but less-than-accurate way of referencing an ethnic group. None of the “major races of humanity” is ethnically monolithic – they all have a wide range of characteristics included within them. > > As for the basic question, Amish are a _cultural group_ who practice the variant on Menno Simons’s beliefs advocated by Jacob Ammann, in terms of religious attachment, and who reject much of modern culture as contrary to their way of life, for reasonably sound if peculiar-sounding reasons. (Compare the “back to nature” school of thought of the 1960s counterculture to ascertain the rationality of their cultural mindset.) TY, i believe my Q’s were all answered. However, i do have a follow-up Q, though I think i know the answer… If a person ceases to follow the Amish religion, (ergo: way of life) then they would cease to be Amish, correct? Such as, if a Vegitarian started eating Big Mac’s daily, they would no longer be a ‘true’ vegitarian. Well… unless they consider themselves an ethnic group… then I guess said person would an Amish-in-Denial 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-amishism-a-religion/288825/10 "2005-02-07T19:00:34Z")
> [@jester21](#): > > If a person ceases to follow the Amish religion, (ergo: way of life) then they would cease to be Amish, correct? Well, yes and no. It gets messy, because being Amish is both about religion and ethnicity. I’m not Amish, nor have I even met any Amish people, but I am/was Mennonite. I’m not from one of the technology-eschewing branches; no horse-drawn carriages or black suits without buttons for us, but ethnically distinct all the same. I am an atheist. I am no longer a Christian of any description, and therefore certainly not a Mennonite in the religious sense. Oh, I still am very sympathetic to many of the basic moral principles they hold important - peacefulness, simple living, etc., but that’s certainly not enough to qualify. However, I’m certainly still Mennonite in some sense. I mean, how would you describe my ethnicity? Canadian? Sure, I’m a 4th generation Canadian. But that seems to be leaving something out, since every last one of my ancestors was Mennonite (they/we are not a particularly exogamous group). But what, then? German? The description is used often enough, because the German language (in both “High” and “Low”, i.e., Plattdietsch, variants) is used by the Mennonite community. It’s not very accurate, though. My ancestors first became an identifiable group in the Low Countries in the 16th Century. So, Dutch, maybe? Not really. The Mennonites were almost entirely wiped out in the Low Countries. Persecuted by Catholics and Protestants alike, those that didn’t revert to those denominations fled to Prussia, where some noblemen around Danzig (present day Gdansk) on the Vistula river delta were more interested in swamp-draining expertise than they were in people’s views on the appropriate mode of baptism. Eventually, though, strict pacifism ran afoul of compulsory military service, and the Mennonites in Prussia either assimilated or migrated, the latter accepting an offer from Catherine the Great to colonize newly conquered lands in the Ukraine. Presumably it was at this point that we picked up our penchant for borscht and verenike (which the rest of the world calls perogies, though we fill ours with cottage cheese, not potato). So Ukrainian? Not really. The Mennonites in the Ukraine remained extremely insular (though I believe that has changed since WWII), so much so that there’s only a tiny smattering of Ukrainian names to be found in the large Mennonite community in western Canada who eventually left the Ukraine to homestead in Manitoba and Saskatchewan. For 400 years, my people have been an identifiable group isolated to a large extent from the populations surrounding them, so there simply isn’t any description for my ethnicity except Mennonite. The story of the Amish is different, starting in south Germany and Switzerland, and doesn’t involve wandering across most of Europe, but the situation is quite similar. If a person ceases to follow the Amish religion, would they then cease to be Amish? Yes. And no. Am I still Mennonite? No. But yes. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-amishism-a-religion/288825/11 "2005-02-07T19:10:49Z")
> [@jester21](#): > > If a person ceases to follow the Amish religion, (ergo: way of life) then they would cease to be Amish, correct? > > Such as, if a Vegitarian started eating Big Mac’s daily, they would no longer be a ‘true’ vegitarian. Except there is also the Cultural component. I was raised Jewish, and am not very religious now, but still consider myself culturally Jewish. I’m also a New Englander, even if I were living elsewhere I’d consider myself a New Englander. People self-identify for a variety of reasons. It’s hard to say who would consider themselves “Amish” based on a set of rules. Now the Amish community might (and I believe does) reject and spurn members of the community who leave and live an “English” lifestyle. But Jews usually consider someone born of a Jewish mother to be Jewish regardless of what religion they follow. I can’t speak for Vegitarians. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-amishism-a-religion/288825/12 "2005-02-08T13:32:49Z")
> [@jester21](#): > > Do the Amish have thier own religion? If so, what is it based on? If not, what religion do they practice? Although I think you may have reasoned out the answer to this question, no one in this thread has actually come out and said it. The Amish are Christians. They are a sect of Christianity. They use the Bible, believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross for their sins, etc. ---
**Author:** ![jester21](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed655f/32.png) [@jester21](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jester21)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-amishism-a-religion/288825/13 "2005-02-08T13:37:00Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > Although I think you may have reasoned out the answer to this question, no one in this thread has actually come out and said it. > > The Amish are Christians. They are a sect of Christianity. They use the Bible, believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross for their sins, etc. which bible? (that’s not a rhetorical question) ---
**Author:** ![jester21](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed655f/32.png) [@jester21](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jester21)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-amishism-a-religion/288825/14 "2005-02-08T13:39:02Z")
I saw this part: > [@Krokodil](#): > > The largest Amish sect is called Old Order Amish Mennonite Church, and it’s about 350 years old. It broke off of the Mennonite religion, which is about 600 years old. but I don’t know what the Mennonite religion IS… so i kind of breezed over it… but know it know it’s a form of Christianity 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-amishism-a-religion/288825/15 "2005-02-08T14:01:25Z")
> [@jester21](#): > > which bible? (that’s not a rhetorical question) I dunno. Probably some German translation dating to the 1600’s. The original translation that Guttenberg used, maybe??? But I’d bet 500-1 that it’s the “Protestant” Bible, which includes: Genesis Exodus Leviticus Numbers Dueteronomy Joshua Judges Ruth 1 Samuel 2 Samuel 1 Kings 2 Kings 1 Chronicles 2 Chronicles Ezra Nehemiah Esther Job Psalms Proberbs Ecclesiastes Song of Songs (or Song of Solomon, depending upon which translation you prefer) Isaiah Jeremiah Lamentations Ezekiel Daneil Hosea Joel Amos Obadiah Jonah Micah Nahum Habbakkuk Zephaniah Haggai Zechariah Malachi Matthew Mark Luke John Acts Romans 1 Corinthians 2 Corinthians Galatians Ephesians Phillippians Colossians 1 Thessalonians 2 Thessalonians 1 Timothy 2 Timothy Titus Philemon Hebrews James 1 Peter 2 Peter 1 John 2 John 3 John Jude Revelation …and does not include any of the “Apocrypha” or other non-canonical books that are included in other Bibles. ---
**Author:** ![Mathochist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c89c15/32.png) [@Mathochist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mathochist)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-amishism-a-religion/288825/16 "2005-02-08T15:36:23Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > …and does not include any of the “Apocrypha” or other non-canonical books that are included in other Bibles. non-_protestant_-canonical. It should be pretty obvious that if you move to another religion with another collection in its Bible, it uses… another canon! ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-amishism-a-religion/288825/17 "2005-02-08T18:12:51Z")
> [@jester21](#): > > I saw this part: > > but I don’t know what the Mennonite religion IS… so i kind of breezed over it… > > but know it know it’s a form of Christianity 🙂 The Amish portion of the [religioustolerance.org](http://religioustolerance.org) website includes the following: “The Amish are a very conservative Christian faith group, with an Anabaptist tradition. Many of their beliefs are identical to those of many Fundamentalist and other Evangelical churches” ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-amishism-a-religion/288825/18 "2005-02-08T18:47:14Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > The Amish portion of the [religioustolerance.org](http://religioustolerance.org) website includes the following: “The Amish are a very conservative Christian faith group, with an Anabaptist tradition. Many of their beliefs are identical to those of many Fundamentalist and other Evangelical churches” Depends on one’s definition of ‘many’, I suppose. The Amish are decidely not evangelical, in the sense of being driven to convert everyone and their dog to their one true faith. I’d say there are three key beliefs which distinguish the Amish from the generic Protestant denomination of your choice: 1. Believer’s Baptism. The defining characteristic of Anabaptism, and the element most likely to get one burned at the stake, back in the 16th Century. These days baptizing adults upon the confession of their faith, rather than getting the little nippers at a couple days old, is hardly controversial, of course, nor is it limited to the original Anabaptist groups, but at the time its implications regarding connections between Church and State were considered dangerous. 2. Strict pacifism. Turn the other cheek is taken seriously. Not to many Fundamentalists adhere to this in anything like the way the Amish do. 3. Simple living, and eschewing material gain. One cannot serve both God and Mammon, easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, etc. Again, taken very seriously by the Amish. Schisms develop over whether it is acceptable to use rubber tires on one’s buggy. Not something that appears to be stressed amongst Fundamentalists. Other than that, yeah, roughly similar theology to most low-church Protestants, barring Rapture Theology, which many of the conservative evangelicals believe. If people are interested, I can probably dig up some links with decent material on the origins of Anabaptism and the relevant bits of history which led to its various forms, or I could essay to write something myself. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-amishism-a-religion/288825/19 "2005-02-08T19:08:54Z")
You’d think the Amish would have a good website up to explain all these things. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Spurious\_George](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Spurious\_George](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spurious_George)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-amishism-a-religion/288825/20 "2005-02-08T21:02:48Z")
Or that some Straight Dope posters would be current members of the church, and able to share their perspectives. Come on, Amish Dopers, speak up! 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-amishism-a-religion/288825.md?page=2)