# Is an anti-war movie possible? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [June 9, 2025, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-an-anti-war-movie-possible/1019363 "2025-06-09T12:37:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2025, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-an-anti-war-movie-possible/1019363/41 "2025-06-09T21:52:50Z")
> [@Reply](#): > > “wtf was all that for” A truly terrific movie that encapsulates the absurd pointlessness of war is the Serbian-Croatian co-production _[No Man’s Land](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Man%27s_Land_(2001_film))_ from 2001. (It later won the International Film Oscar.) It’s set up like a metaphorical fable, and it’s both very bleak and occasionally hilarious. My strongest recommendation. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2025, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-an-anti-war-movie-possible/1019363/42 "2025-06-09T22:04:09Z")
[Johnny Got His Gun](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0067277/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_8_nm_0_in_0_q_johnny%2520got%2520his%2520gou) (1971) is a surrealistic film about a soldier in World War I who’s hit by a mortar shell and loses his arms, legs, eyes, ears, mouth and nose. It’s one of the most depressing films ever made and can’t possibly be interpreted by any rational person as being anything but antiwar. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2025, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-an-anti-war-movie-possible/1019363/43 "2025-06-09T23:50:32Z")
_The Fog of War_ is a documentary of interviews with Robert McNamara, former Secretary of Defense during the Vietnam era. It shows how badly the US misjudged the situation and botched its decisions. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-an-anti-war-movie-possible/1019363/44 "2025-06-10T02:06:36Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > > [@robby](#): > > > > Ironically, one that generally does not do this is _Glory_. The ending note of the film is not unlike the beginning. > > I strongly disagree. The opening of the movie depicts horror; it’s ending shows grace, in the religious sense. All of the protagonists died at the end after failing in their mission to take the Confederate fort. The film starts and ends with mass casualties and death. Pretty depressing stuff. But the epilogue of the film makes it clear that their sacrifice was not in vain. Their courage was widely reported and led to many thousands of black soldiers being allowed to serve in combat roles, ultimately making up 10% of the Union army and turning the tide of the war, according to Lincoln. So I think you’re right. The epilogue actually changes the whole tone. Despite losing the battle (shown on screen), they helped win the war (as stated in the epilogue). And since the war was depicted in the film from the Union perspective as a just war, you can’t really call it an anti-war film. > [@Alessan](#): > > _Glory_ is about as far from an antiwar movie as possible. I mean, it’s right there in the name! Well, I did say “ironically.” 😉 But as I indicated above, I’ve changed my mind and agree with you. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-an-anti-war-movie-possible/1019363/45 "2025-06-10T04:33:07Z")
> [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > (but I did not watch _Gandhi_ — was it an anti-war movie?) No. There was one mention of Gandhi planning to make a speech against World War I in 1915. There was even less mention of World War II. It was an anti-colonialism movie. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-an-anti-war-movie-possible/1019363/46 "2025-06-10T09:51:47Z")
Back in 1976 I saw [The Execution of Private Slovik](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071477/reference/?ref_=nm_flmg_job_1_cdt_t_194) a TV movie starring Martin Sheen. It is a very powerful and affecting narrative about the only American soldier executed for desertion in WWII. I have wanted to see it again for years and, thanks to this thread I find that LionHeart FilmWorks has made it available on YouTube, [The Execution of Private Slovik](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7FDhGJOnG0&t=0s), As an added bonus, among many other interesting items, they have another TV war movie that I only happened to think about a few days ago, the Jan-Michael Vincent vehicle [Tribes](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066490/reference/?ref_=nm_flmg_job_1_cdt_t_75). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-an-anti-war-movie-possible/1019363/47 "2025-06-10T10:23:40Z")
> [@Tibby](#): > > And Dr. Strangelove is a pitch-black anti-war satire that exposes the absurdity of war when egos, paranoia, and incompetence are in charge of the nuclear button. At that, there’s of course nothing satirical about Fail Safe: people aren’t willing to put aside their differences and trust each other, which means that all-out war is about to ensue after innocents get killed en masse, which is so bleak a prospect that yet _other_ innocents get killed en masse to avert it, which prompts the military officer who carries out the mission to commit suicide, the end. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-an-anti-war-movie-possible/1019363/48 "2025-06-10T10:36:26Z")
> [@robby](#): > > All of the protagonists died at the end after failing in their mission to take the Confederate fort. The film starts and ends with mass casualties and death. Pretty depressing stuff. Even without the epilogue, I found the ending sad, but not depressing. They fought bravely and died honorably for a good cause, and were buried together as brothers, officers and enlisted, white and black. Sure, they may have lost the battle, but there’s no shame in that. I actually thought it was pretty inspiring. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-an-anti-war-movie-possible/1019363/49 "2025-06-10T12:01:36Z")
> [@Kropotkin](#): > > At the same time, films that point to the moral dilemmas of war, such as Kubrick’s Paths of Glory accept the general backdrop of the war, suggesting only that “bad decisions” or venal officers are the problem with war. Although not as intense as the book “Catch 22” strikes at the capitalist foundation of modern war when Snowden is wounded and another airman opens the aid kit to find a share of stock. I believe it’s Milo who says “his parents would understand”. Catch 22 covers most of the anti war bases. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-an-anti-war-movie-possible/1019363/50 "2025-06-10T15:16:13Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Supposedly failed anti-war films in this regard include _Full Metal Jacket_ and _Saving Private Ryan_; the former was decried as “another goddamn recruiting film” by Samuel Fuller, while the latter was criticized by Toby Miller as legitimizing the United States as the military savior of the world. I’m amazed anyone thought SPR was supposed to be an anti-war film. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-an-anti-war-movie-possible/1019363/51 "2025-06-10T23:06:55Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Kropotkin is in good company here: [Anti-war film - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-war_film) > > > …Supposedly failed anti-war films in this regard include _Full Metal Jacket_ and _Saving Private Ryan_; the former was decried as “another goddamn recruiting film” by Samuel Fuller… That tracks, since I first saw _Full Metal Jacket_ at Marine Corps Base Camp Pendleton in the summer of 1988 on a large screen TV in a squad bay with 100 other Navy and Marine Corps midshipmen. It was put on by the Gunnery Sergeant in charge of our group, who growled, “This is what boot camp used to be like!” We were at Camp Pendleton to learn about the Marine Corps, so it was literally used as a recruiting film for us. (The film we saw at my NROTC unit the previous year was _Aliens_, because, yaknow, Space Marines.) ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-an-anti-war-movie-possible/1019363/52 "2025-06-10T23:56:56Z")
Someone mentioned _The Day After_-a movie about the aftermath of a nuclear war. Definitely anti-war. In fact I can NOT even think of a movie about **NUCLEAR** war that seems pro war. So yes an anti-war film IS possible. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-an-anti-war-movie-possible/1019363/53 "2025-06-11T00:31:37Z")
As others pointed out, such a movie would have to show purely the harm done by war and none of the “coolness” of it. I’ve been thinking about Operation Meetinghouse - the March 1945 napalm and magnesium American firebombing of Tokyo that burned 120,000 people to death - and thought that it would have been the perfect candidate for an anti-war movie, if filmed in grisly-enough detail, showing purely the view from those roasting alive that night. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-an-anti-war-movie-possible/1019363/54 "2025-06-11T01:18:44Z")
The phenomenon of “war porn” has been implicitly raised here and is one of the arguments for saying an anti -war movie is,if not impossible, a lot harder to pull off than one might think. Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![lum\_s\_husband](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lum_s_husband/32/3698_2.png) [@lum\_s\_husband](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lum_s_husband)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-an-anti-war-movie-possible/1019363/55 "2025-06-11T01:41:29Z")
Can you come to the conclusion that the Union prevailing over the Confederacy or the Allies defeating the Axis were, in fact, bad outcomes? If not, you will have a hard time making an “anti-war” piece of media that has the victor’s or even a neutral POV. Also, there does not and probably cannot exist a piece of media the some consumer cannot take the opposite lesson from that which was intended. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-an-anti-war-movie-possible/1019363/56 "2025-06-11T05:42:20Z")
> [@robby](#): > > That tracks, since I first saw _Full Metal Jacket_ at Marine Corps Base Camp Pendleton in the summer of 1988 on a large screen TV in a squad bay with 100 other Navy and Marine Corps midshipmen. It was put on by the Gunnery Sergeant in charge of our group, who growled, “This is what boot camp used to be like!” They showed us the first half of the movie at my IDF Infantry Squad Leader’s Course, as part of a class on how to identify signs of emotional distress in new recruits and how NOT to handle the situation if you do. Our main conclusion was that American sergeants were idiots. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-an-anti-war-movie-possible/1019363/57 "2025-06-11T05:45:15Z")
> [@lum\_s\_husband](#): > > Can you come to the conclusion that the Union prevailing over the Confederacy or the Allies defeating the Axis were, in fact, bad outcomes? If not, you will have a hard time making an “anti-war” piece of media that has the victor’s or even a neutral POV. Exactly. To make a true anti-war film, you don’t just have to show that war is bad; you also have to show that war is _wrong_. And some wars simply aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-an-anti-war-movie-possible/1019363/58 "2025-06-11T11:28:33Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Our main conclusion was that American sergeants were idiots. At least they don’t spend all their time marching up and down the square. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-an-anti-war-movie-possible/1019363/59 "2025-06-11T12:40:13Z")
Surprised no one has mentioned _Paths of Glory_ yet. It’s my go-to. If you’ve seen it, you should know why. It leaves you feeling deflated and angry. It only deigns to take just enough of the edge off in the end to not _also_ be an anti-human film (in addition to an anti-war film). I have seen most of the other films put forward as contenders, and I just don’t see how those measure up. They’re just too much fun for teenage boys. Especially the other Kubrick films mentioned. _Full Metal Jacket_? Kids love the boot camp scenes most of all. R. Lee Erney makes being a Gunnery Sergeant and a drill sergeant look so damn cool and he’s just so hilarious, who wouldn’t want to join up and get a taste of that—maybe even be a Gunnery Sergeant themself someday. As for Gomer Pyle, well, I think we can all agree (here putting oneself in the minds of literal children and barely any better young adult men who think this is cool) that _they_ aren’t like that and never will be, so eff him, right? They should have just gone harder on the towels! _Apocalypse Now_? _Ride of the Valkyries_. That’s all I have to say about that. It’s the quintessential anti-war movie that makes war look just so damn cool. Almost literally as _Jarhead_ used it to make the very same point: it’s virtually impossible to make a truly an anti-war film. _Dr. Strangelove_? Who _wouldn’t_ want to be invoked in so much hijinks? No fighting in the war room? LOLz! And sign me up for the part where I get to fly a plane while cosplaying as a cowboy hat and ride a giant bomb like mounting a horse! SO COOL!!! With an honorable (dishonorable?) mention for Robert Altman’s _MASH_ which, as someone noted upthread, makes war look like summer camp, with all sorts of hijinks and pranks. Plus a lot of misogyny and casual racism. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-an-anti-war-movie-possible/1019363/60 "2025-06-11T12:48:09Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > > [@robby](#): > > > > That tracks, since I first saw _Full Metal Jacket_ at Marine Corps Base Camp Pendleton in the summer of 1988 on a large screen TV in a squad bay with 100 other Navy and Marine Corps midshipmen. It was put on by the Gunnery Sergeant in charge of our group, who growled, “This is what boot camp used to be like!” > > They showed us the first half of the movie at my IDF Infantry Squad Leader’s Course, as part of a class on how to identify signs of emotional distress in new recruits and how NOT to handle the situation if you do. Our main conclusion was that American sergeants were idiots. Despite my experience of a drill sergeant glamorizing how boot camp “used to be” 20 years earlier (and now nearly 60 years ago!), there’s a reason that recruit training changed in the U.S. military from how it is depicted in the film. There are a lot more rules now (which is true for the last 40 years or so), and a lot less hazing and cruelty. Not only were there some well-publicized recruit deaths which led to a public outcry, but even the movie _Full Metal Jacket_ itself shows the possible consequences of pushing a recruit literally past the breaking point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-an-anti-war-movie-possible/1019363.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-an-anti-war-movie-possible/1019363.md?page=4)