# Is anarchy in international relations a problem? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 27, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anarchy-in-international-relations-a-problem/636036 "2012-09-27T16:48:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anarchy-in-international-relations-a-problem/636036/141 "2012-10-15T19:25:45Z")
OK, but then the question remains: who–or what–controls the Anarch? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anarchy-in-international-relations-a-problem/636036/142 "2012-10-15T19:33:25Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > OK, but then the question remains: who–or what–controls the Anarch? The pink unicorn, of course… also known as the G-1. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anarchy-in-international-relations-a-problem/636036/143 "2012-10-15T19:39:21Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > OK, but then the question remains: who–or what–controls the Anarch? Well, it’s a well known fact, Sonny Jim, that there’s a secret society of the five wealthiest people in the world, known as the Pentavirate, who run everything in the world, including the newspapers, and meet tri-annually at a secret country mansion in Colorado, known as The Meadows. The Queen, the Vatican, the Gettys, the Rothschilds, and Colonel Sanders before he went tets-up (I hated the Colonel with is wee beady eyes! And that smug look on his face, “Oh, you’re gonna buy my chicken! Ohhhhh!”) ---
**Author:** ![Scholar\_Beardpig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de053/32.png) [@Scholar\_Beardpig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scholar_Beardpig)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anarchy-in-international-relations-a-problem/636036/144 "2012-10-15T20:32:54Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > In the final analysis, there’s the populus, the G-192, the Pantocrator, the Presidium, and the Anarch. The populus is everyone who is _not_ of the G-192, of the Presidium, or the Pantocrator or the Anarch. The populus includes millionaires and billionaires, the rich and the poor, people in government, the 1%, the 99%, the 47%, the 30%. > > You are close in surmising that the Presidium is no more than 10 or 15 members; the Presidium would be no more than 192 members. Being multinational in nature the Presidium would be smaller than the G-192. One is reminded of _divide et impera_. > > I want to emphasize that the workings and dynamics of power for the Pantocrator is not power that is commonly thought of. It is _devolved_ power - it is a member of the Presidium coming from on high to a lower level to address the G-192. For the Pantocrator, who isn’t even close to being among the highest members of the Presidium, it is beneath him - even him - to even address the “common” heads of government. Notice that the way it is organized - the populus, the G-192, the Pantocrator, the Presidium, and the Anarch - it is like a pyramid with an inverted pyramid intersecting. > > And the Pantocrator is the intersection. > > From this view, it can hopefully be comprehended after further commentary and reply that the Anarch is above ideology and organization, above power. That to the Anarch dictators are mere pawns. That the Anarch is above those who supposedly control finance, media, military, ect. That the Anarch controls those who control those who control finance, media, military, ect. That the Anarch controls all religions, all political movements, ect. The Pope, the Dalai Lama, and the Ayatollah. The Queen. The Anarch is the all-seeing eye. Answer this question. Answer only this question. _By what mechanism does the Anarch compel finance, media, military, the Pope, the Dalai Lama, the Ayatollah, and the Queen of England to do his bidding?_ All power is made of people. Powerful people are powerful because others work on their behalf, and those others work on their behalf because they feel they’re getting something in return. All power is ultimately based on charisma, because it consists of other people performing labor on their behalf. Army generals are only powerful because they have men who are willing to do what they say. The President is only powerful because people do what he say. If the entire country simply refused to acknowledge one of the President’s orders, what could he do? The answer is, of course, nothing. What do the Anarch and his Presidium give their infinite spear-carriers to make them do their bidding? Is it bribery? Blackmail? Does he preach some kind of doctrine that they follow? You said that the Anarch controls all finance. This, presumably, means that he can command a bank to extend a line of credit to someone. How does he do that? At some point, somebody gets a telephone call, receives instructions to do something, and realizes that it’s not legit - that it’s from someone who’s not with the bank. Who is that person, and why do they do what they’re told? And what about the Presidium? How does the Anarch keep them in line? If the Presidium makes the Anarch, can they not unmake him? If they are the avenues through which he exercises his power, can they not isolate him, much as the Chinese emperors were isolated by their ministers and eunuchs? In the other thread, I talked about keeping the President of France a prisoner in his own palace. The difference is, there are millions of people who will hear ‘The President of France’ and think, ‘He should not be a prisoner in his palace, we have to help him!’ Who, upon hearing that the Presidium has imprisoned the Anarch, will come to his rescue? ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anarchy-in-international-relations-a-problem/636036/145 "2012-10-16T02:35:45Z")
> [@Scholar\_Beardpig](#): > > _By what mechanism does the Anarch compel finance, media, military, the Pope, the Dalai Lama, the Ayatollah, and the Queen of England to do his bidding?_ The Anarch intervenes in the world through the Presidium, the Pantocrator, the G-192, and the populus. _Vox populi, vox Dei_. > [@Scholar\_Beardpig](#): > > All power is made of people. Powerful people are powerful because others work on their behalf, and those others work on their behalf because they feel they’re getting something in return. This analysis of power works only at the level of the G-192. > [@Scholar\_Beardpig](#): > > All power is ultimately based on charisma, because it consists of other people performing labor on their behalf. Army generals are only powerful because they have men who are willing to do what they say. The President is only powerful because people do what he say. If the entire country simply refused to acknowledge one of the President’s orders, what could he do? The answer is, of course, nothing. Which would be interesting, to say the least, if this happened during the height of the Cold War. > [@Scholar\_Beardpig](#): > > What do the Anarch and his Presidium give their infinite spear-carriers to make them do their bidding? The Anarch’s “infinite spear-carriers” _are_ the Presidium, the Pantocrator, the G-192, and the populus. The Anarch, by some mechanism, is able to oversee the affairs of the world and (from our perspective) cause complicated events, entanglements, disputes which (from the Anarch’s perspective) are simple. The Anarch would sit at the proverbial top, looking down at the affairs of the world, detached yet involved. The Anarch would receive _The New York Times_ every day, and, for example, on a certain day, March 20, 2003, would look at [the headline on the front page](http://mikophoto.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/The-New-York-Times-front-page-on-March-20-2003.jpg) and say, “very good”, knowing that, while he did not personally write that headline, he _made_ that headline happen. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anarchy-in-international-relations-a-problem/636036/146 "2012-10-16T05:21:20Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > The Anarch’s “infinite spear-carriers” _are_ the Presidium, the Pantocrator, the G-192, and the populus. The Anarch, **by some mechanism** , is able to oversee the affairs of the world and (from our perspective) cause complicated events, entanglements, disputes which (from the Anarch’s perspective) are simple. The Anarch would sit at the proverbial top, looking down at the affairs of the world, detached yet involved. The Anarch would receive _The New York Times_ every day, and, for example, on a certain day, March 20, 2003, would look at [the headline on the front page](http://mikophoto.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/The-New-York-Times-front-page-on-March-20-2003.jpg) and say, “very good”, knowing that, while he did not personally write that headline, he _made_ that headline happen. Bolding mine. In the words of my people… nu? What mechanism? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anarchy-in-international-relations-a-problem/636036/147 "2012-10-16T05:45:07Z")
The natural position of Man is on his knees. He is meant to be ruled! So yes, anarchy is a problem, because people need to be told what to do and how to behavior. They cannot be trusted to look out for their own best interests. Government should always be in existence for a large group of people ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anarchy-in-international-relations-a-problem/636036/148 "2012-10-16T08:39:59Z")
Kozmid, you’re not answering any of Scholar Beardpig’s questions. You’re just repeating stuff you’ve already said, and which he is asking you to substantiate. I’ll second his question: **what is this “mechanism” you refer to?** ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anarchy-in-international-relations-a-problem/636036/149 "2012-10-16T10:56:40Z")
Hey **Kozmik** , a few questions: 1. Is the Anarch a human being? Does he, she or it possess any powers which might be described as “magical” or “supernatural”? 2. Is the Anarch, by and large, a benevolent or a malevolent ruler? Is the current arrangement “good” or “bad” for humanity? 3. How long has the world been run by an Anarch controlling a Presidium? Is it a recent arrangement, say post-World War II? Going back to Charlemagne? Pericles? Hammurabi? 4. Is there ever, or has there ever been, a coup d’état, civil war and/or war of succession _within_ the Presidium and the Anarch’s inner circle? 5. Have all Anarchs throughout history followed a “fixed common course” or “master-plan”, and if so, was is it all about? And if not, is each and every Anarch, upon their assumption of office, allowed to start anew, pursuing a new agenda? _Finally, the most important question of them all. If you’re only going to answer one of my questions, please let it be this one:_ 1. Has any person, ever, either spoken or written openly about the details of this arrangement of power (G-192, Presidium, Anarch, etc.), i.e. before you yourself did so in this very thread? Has, for example, the name of an Anarch ever been revealed? Has an internal document ever leaked, or a closed meeting ever been secretly recorded? And if so, who were the whistleblowers and what became of them? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anarchy-in-international-relations-a-problem/636036/150 "2012-10-16T11:13:54Z")
**Kozmik** - As much as I hate appearing to be a band-wagon jumper, could you answer one question of mine? Where are you getting your information about the Anarch and the Presidium? ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anarchy-in-international-relations-a-problem/636036/151 "2012-10-16T13:08:20Z")
Is the Anarch on Blackberry Messenger? What’s his BBM number? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anarchy-in-international-relations-a-problem/636036/152 "2012-10-16T13:39:30Z")
Serious question: why do people continue to take **Kozmik** seriously in these threads, when they all end up exactly the same way? He’s clearly either spinning bullshit just for a laugh, or actually mentally ill. I suspect it’s the former, but either way it’s a fool’s errand to engage him. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anarchy-in-international-relations-a-problem/636036/153 "2012-10-16T14:01:01Z")
Because it’s a fun little mental workout. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anarchy-in-international-relations-a-problem/636036/154 "2012-10-16T14:04:01Z")
Also the Anarch is making me. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anarchy-in-international-relations-a-problem/636036/155 "2012-10-16T14:39:41Z")
I need to learn how he knows all this in order to stop a leak in the organization. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anarchy-in-international-relations-a-problem/636036/156 "2012-10-16T16:32:53Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > He’s clearly either spinning bullshit just for a laugh, or actually mentally ill. Both are possible, but I’m guessing he actually holds these views, which are strikingly irrational and (in my view) terribly fascinating for that very reason. ---
**Author:** ![Scholar\_Beardpig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de053/32.png) [@Scholar\_Beardpig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scholar_Beardpig)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anarchy-in-international-relations-a-problem/636036/157 "2012-10-17T05:55:06Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Serious question: why do people continue to take **Kozmik** seriously in these threads, when they all end up exactly the same way? He’s clearly either spinning bullshit just for a laugh, or actually mentally ill. I suspect it’s the former, but either way it’s a fool’s errand to engage him. Because, naive though this sounds, I believe in what I understand to be the cognitive school of psychology, that if we just reason this thing out to its ultimate conclusion, then he’ll have to give it up. A vain hope, I know, but a man has to believe in something. Also, I’ve read everything he’s posted on this. At first, it was just morbid fascination - like watching a car accident - but now, I sincerely want to see this through. I don’t know what ‘through’ is, but I’m not there yet and I’m still strong for chasing it. ---
**Author:** ![Scholar\_Beardpig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de053/32.png) [@Scholar\_Beardpig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scholar_Beardpig)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anarchy-in-international-relations-a-problem/636036/158 "2012-10-17T06:07:04Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > The Anarch intervenes in the world through the Presidium, the Pantocrator, the G-192, and the populus. _Vox populi, vox Dei_. **Kozmik,** you copied and pasted all that stuff about the New York Times from one of your other posts. Shame on you. I have been on airplanes all day, and I am very, very tired. I was trying to write out a precise question, but I don’t have the power for it. While I recover my strength, I will leave you with a simple question, and you can chew on it while I bring the more complicated one. _How does the Anarch protect himself from coup d’etats launched by members of the Presidium?_ ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anarchy-in-international-relations-a-problem/636036/159 "2012-10-17T08:29:33Z")
> [@Scholar\_Beardpig](#): > > Because, naive though this sounds, I believe in what I understand to be the cognitive school of psychology, that if we just reason this thing out to its ultimate conclusion, then he’ll have to give it up. I had a notion that you believed in cognative psychology. > [@Scholar\_Beardpig](#): > > A vain hope, I know, but a man has to believe in something. I know of people and their vain hopes. You are right, though, that a man has to believe in something. I believe in truth. Truth is what you know _today_. Subjective and objective. > [@Scholar\_Beardpig](#): > > Also, I’ve read everything he’s posted on this. I know. I know you’ve read everything I’ve posted in this thread. > [@Scholar\_Beardpig](#): > > I don’t know what ‘through’ is, but I’m not there yet and I’m still strong for chasing it. ‘Through’ is an answer to the question in the thread title and a reason for the answer. > [@Scholar\_Beardpig](#): > > **Kozmik,** you copied and pasted all that stuff about the New York Times from one of your other posts. Shame on you. I did that for two reasons. One, to find out whether you, in fact, read everything I posted in this thread. Two, to reiterate the central thesis that is behind the question in the thread title. > [@Scholar\_Beardpig](#): > > _How does the Anarch protect himself from coup d’etats launched by members of the Presidium?_ A complicated question, related to the central thesis and the question in the thread title. You are close in [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15565784&postcount=115) post of yours about double lives. It is, for lack of better terms, a double world, a world behind the world, or, above the world. It’s like watching a hurricane from above. You are not in the hurricane. You caused the hurricane. I’ve always wondered whether someone could be beyond the vicissitudes of war. I’ve always wondered whether, for example, Stalin knew that one day someone -Khrushchev - would denounce him. A maxim that I am working on and that I am putting myself to ridicule by stating - nevertheless: > [@](#): > > Live in the present as though it is the past. Live in the past as though it is the future. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anarchy-in-international-relations-a-problem/636036/160 "2012-10-17T08:34:35Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > A complicated question, related to the central thesis and the question in the thread title. You are close in [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15565784&postcount=115) post of yours about double lives. It is, for lack of better terms, a double world, a world behind the world, or, above the world. It’s like watching a hurricane from above. You are not in the hurricane. You caused the hurricane. I’m sorry, but according to the rules, your answer must not be in the form of a metaphor. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anarchy-in-international-relations-a-problem/636036.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anarchy-in-international-relations-a-problem/636036.md?page=9)