# Is anti-Catholic bigotry hate speech? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [June 26, 2022, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877 "2022-06-26T04:34:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/101 "2022-06-29T03:06:15Z")
On this message board, a poster stated that the six Justices in the majority were religious nutjobs, or somesuch. Being a Catholic or Anglican is nutty? That kind of attitude against the Other, can, and unfortunately has, led to violence, and has throughout human history. Also, are people targeting Catholic churches for some other reason than that the churches are Catholic? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/102 "2022-06-29T07:13:42Z")
I believe they ment to convey that if your abortion policies are to the right of Ireland, Italy and the Taliban, you might qualify as a (religious) nutjob. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/103 "2022-06-29T07:46:56Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@BigT](#): > > > > Hate speech is hate speech. But “a bunch of fucking old white men” is not hate speech. That group is not an oppressed class, and that statement does not contribute to their oppression. ⁢ > > The “oppressed class” thing is, IMHO bullshit, just a way to justify hate speech. Or are we gonna have a rating system, grading each religion, race. etc on how much it is oppressed? I didn’t say you needed a “how much.” You just need some sort of oppression. You were arguing that using the word “fucking” before “old white men” was hate speech. There is this movement among some white people to try and make out like racism is just as big a problem for them as it is for other groups. They want to ignore their privilege from being the majority. You also see this with some men, and some rich people. Hate speech isn’t just any bigotry. It’s a specific kind of harmful bigotry. It doesn’t apply when someone says “fucking old white men.” Maybe if it was “let’s kill all the white men” or something, you’d have a better case. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/104 "2022-06-29T08:49:11Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > On this message board, a poster stated that the six Justices in the majority were religious nutjobs, or somesuch. Being a Catholic or Anglican is nutty? That kind of attitude against the Other, can, and unfortunately has, led to violence, and has throughout human history. _Some_ Catholics or Anglicans are nutty. This is obviously commentary on the extreme fundamentalist beliefs held by these specific people. It’s an assertion that these people are religious nutjobs just as the Taliban are religious nutjobs. If you’re going to attempt to protect bad ideas that derive from religion by mischaracterizing an attack on those ideas as an attack on the broad cultural identity of millions of people you’re undermining your credibility in identifying “hate speech”. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/105 "2022-06-29T12:04:15Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Also, are people targeting Catholic churches for some other reason than that the churches are Catholic? Are they? > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > On this message board, a poster stated that the six Justices in the majority were religious nutjobs, or somesuch. I’m not persuaded that this happened as you describe. What evidence do you have? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/106 "2022-06-29T12:26:37Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > If you’re going to attempt to protect bad ideas that derive from religion by mischaracterizing an attack on those ideas as an attack on the broad cultural identity of millions of people you’re undermining your credibility in identifying “hate speech”. Or attempting to debase the meaning of the concept “hate speech”. _Can_ there be anti-Catholic hate speech? Sure. Are we surrounded by examples of it in this debate? No. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/107 "2022-06-29T12:29:12Z")
OK, so tell me more about these threats that Sonia Sotomayor is receiving. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/108 "2022-06-29T16:52:32Z")
She’s not REALLY Catholic. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/109 "2022-06-29T17:03:00Z")
No true ~~Scotsman~~ Catholic ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/110 "2022-06-29T17:05:12Z")
She’s Hispanicatholic. That’s a totally different religion. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/111 "2022-06-29T17:13:06Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The question isn’t whether there’s any anti-Catholic violence at all in the US. The question is whether historical/social context makes them exactly the same. It doesn’t. Hate speech is hate speech. Yes, of course the Mods will consider factors before making it a Note or Warning or whatever. > [@BigT](#): > > I didn’t say you needed a “how much.” You just need some sort of oppression. You were arguing that using the word “fucking” before “old white men” was hate speech. You don’t think seniors have issues? The #1 target of scams and fraudsters. Being taken advantage off, con jobs, mobilty and health issues, etc. But I do not care about whether or not YOU consider a group oppressed or not. Too many use that an excuse for bigotry. > [@Riemann](#): > > _Some_ Catholics or Anglicans are nutty. Some Muslims, some Jews, and some atheists are nutty. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’m not persuaded that this happened as you describe. It did. They originally said all were, in fact. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/112 "2022-06-29T17:20:14Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It did. They originally said all were, in fact. It would be really helpful to link to that post, since this is a message board and you can do that. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/113 "2022-06-29T17:24:15Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Some Muslims, some Jews, and some atheists are nutty. Name all the Muslims, Jews and atheists on the Supreme Court. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/114 "2022-06-29T17:24:32Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Some Muslims, some Jews, and some atheists are nutty. Indeed they are, as in the example I gave of the Taliban. The specific religious nutjobs who were being called out here for their extremist beliefs were Christians. Do you have an actual point? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/115 "2022-06-29T17:24:56Z")
> [@The Supreme Court isn't done: Watch and see a lot of individual rights fall](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/51): > > Our Supreme Court is nine idiotic theocrats. Their robes will be donned while awaiting rapture. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/116 "2022-06-29T17:25:33Z")
Thank you. 👍 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/117 "2022-06-29T17:31:03Z")
Stephen Breyer (retiring), is Jewish, as is Elena Kagan. However, are we limiting this discussion to only hate speech vs Justices??? Are you for or against hate speech? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/118 "2022-06-29T17:32:25Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Hate speech is hate speech. Tautologies are tautological. You are saying something trivially true, like “cats are cats,” which adds nothing to the discussion except to clarify that you are not going to discuss any sort of context or nuance. > [@DrDeth](#): > > It did. They originally said all were, in fact. Strangely, I am no more persuaded by your repeating the uncited assertion than I was by the original uncited assertion. To forestall a possible objection: if a third person repeats the uncited assertion, I will not be persuaded. Citing the assertion would be persuasive. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/119 "2022-06-29T17:35:29Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Citing the assertion would be persuasive. It’s been done by **crowmanyclouds.** ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/120 "2022-06-29T18:29:50Z")
Yep–that was persuasive. Thanks, @crowmanyclouds! Way better than repeated uncited assertions. Now that we can see the context, let’s look at how D’anconia misrepresented it. > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > On this message board, a poster stated that the six Justices in the majority were religious nutjobs, or somesuch. What @crowmanyclouds _should_ have cited was something posted two posts lower: > [@Toxgoddess](#): > > Six (currently). Sotomayor, Kagan and Breyer are not religious nutjobs. Nor is Brown-Jackson. So, someone said six were religious nutjobs, and specifically said that Sotomayor (Catholic) was not a nutjob. > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Being a Catholic or Anglican is nutty? It’s explicitly clear that that’s not what Toxgoddess meant. Whether @D_Anconia misrepresented them intentionally or unintentionally is something only he can answer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877.md?page=7)