# Is anti-Catholic bigotry hate speech? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [June 26, 2022, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877 "2022-06-26T04:34:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/121 "2022-06-29T18:41:15Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > {…} What @crowmanyclouds _should_ have cited was something posted two posts lower: I just went to what I thought was the beginning of the exchange. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > {…} religious nutjobs {…} If that is the most hateiest of the hate speech the board has ever seen then what is . . . amIright @D_Anconia? I mean we wouldn’t want to conflate satire, opinion, and bigotry with hate speech now would we? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/122 "2022-06-29T18:43:11Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > I just went to what I thought was the beginning of the exchange. Totally–sorry that that came across as scoldy, I just wanted to focus in on the exact bit @D_Anconia appears to have paraphrased. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/123 "2022-06-29T18:57:30Z")
Not even slightly scoldy! ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/124 "2022-06-29T21:50:47Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > On this message board, a poster stated that the six Justices in the majority were religious nutjobs, or somesuch. Note those last two words. “nine idiotic theocrats.” which two posters paraphrased as “religious nutjobs”. Which is what D\_Anconia meant by “or somesuch” He never said those were the exact words, in fact the opposite. So, there was no “misrepresentation”. 🙄 And yeah, to me, it is explicitly clear that is what Toxgoddess meant. or least could be inferred from. “Idiotic”. This sort of pointless pettifogging gets us no where. Are you attempting to get us off the actual discussion? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/125 "2022-06-29T21:53:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Are you attempting to get us off the actual discussion? I’m so glad you asked! No. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/126 "2022-06-29T22:03:25Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > {…} Are you attempting to get us off the actual discussion? I thought the subject was hate speech . . . which neither _idiotic theocrat_ or _religious nutjob_ is (IMHO, of course). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/127 "2022-06-29T22:17:55Z")
Both are. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/128 "2022-06-29T22:29:08Z")
Ahh, I must have missed the announcement about you being made a mod and how your opinion on this subject was adjudicating the rules! Congrats! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/129 "2022-06-29T22:57:09Z")
No, they’re not. What do you even think hate speech is? ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/130 "2022-06-29T23:06:35Z")
Well, he hated it, a lot, ok? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/131 "2022-06-29T23:18:24Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > What do you even think hate speech is? He was perfectly clear on this point: > [@DrDeth](#): > > Hate speech is hate speech. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/132 "2022-06-29T23:25:56Z")
But okay, so hate speech is hate speech. Does that mean if I tell you, “Group X considers Group Y just a big bunch of poopyheads?” it’s hate speech? Because I would assume that anyone with common sense could tell that I’M not calling Group Y a bunch of poopyheads, I’m saying that Group X calls them that. And if you understand that, well, that is, in essence, what **crowmanyclouds** was saying about fundamentalist Protestants and how _THEY_ view Catholics. Not how **crowmanyclouds** views Catholics.\* Face people, this wasn’t hate speech. It was simply a giant whoosh. \*Forgive me, **crowmanyclouds** , if I misunderstood you. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/133 "2022-06-29T23:30:52Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > {…} \*Forgive me, **crowmanyclouds** , if I misunderstood you. Nope, you got it. I’m only bigoted towards bigots. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/134 "2022-06-29T23:40:35Z")
So were not allowed to give an opinion if not a Mod?? > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > No, they’re not. What do you even think hate speech is? Let me give you three examples. Say you think Thomas, MT Greene and Netanyahu are all assholes. So you say that asshole Thomas, that asshole MTG, that asshole Netanyahu… All fine. Or you say That asshole N_gg_r Thomas, that Asshole C_nt MTG, or that J_w asshole Netanyahu. You’d get modded. The flag button on the first one would get worn out. Calling people out for being an asshole is fine. But not when you add a superfluous racist, sexist, or bigoted extra. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/135 "2022-06-29T23:46:40Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Let me give you three examples. Say you think Thomas, MT Greene and Netanyahu are all assholes. So you say that asshole Thomas, that asshole MTG, that asshole Netanyahu… All fine. > > Or you say That asshole N_gg_r Thomas, that Asshole C_nt MTG, or that J_w asshole Netanyahu. You’d get modded. The flag button on the first one would get worn out. > > Calling people out for being an asshole is fine. But not when you add a superfluous racist, sexist, or bigoted extra. All agreed, you seem to know what hate speech is. So what are the “racist, sexist or bigoted extra” in the epithets _religious nutjob_ and _idiotic theocrat_? These are clearly criticizing religiously-motivated extremist _beliefs_, not expressing sweeping prejudice against identities. “Religious” and “theocrat” are not identities; or perhaps “religious” is in a very loose sense, but _religious nutjobs_ is clearly not tarring all religious people with the same brush, it is criticizing religious extremism. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/136 "2022-06-29T23:49:51Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > {…} Calling people out for being an asshole is fine. But not when you add a superfluous racist, sexist, or bigoted extra. If we’re calling people out for assholish bigotry should we be allowed to use the words they use so we can make the bigotry crystal clear? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/137 "2022-06-30T00:04:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Calling people out for being an asshole is fine. But not when you add a superfluous racist, sexist, or bigoted extra. “Bigoted” is a huge category. Is it bigoted necessarily to call someone a nutjob? Like, if I call Trump a nutjob, does that mean I’m a bigot? What if I call someone a nutjob for their religious beliefs? Can I call folks who believe their Nordic ancestry gives them a straight line to Thor, and their racial purity is a component of their religious identity, religious nutjobs? Does that make me a bigot? What if someone believes that their religion requires them to commit an act of terrorism? Can I call them a religious nutjob without that being hate speech? What if someone’s religious beliefs are that Christ will only return after a millennium of Christian rule on earth–the post-millenialist movement that’s so influenced the modern religious right? Can I call them religious nutjobs? Or does that make me a bigot? I 100% reject the idea that calling someone out for their beliefs and actions is necessarily hate speech. You offered some examples, but you certainly didn’t clarify why it’s bigoted to call someone a religious nutjob when they’re using their religion to harm other people. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/138 "2022-06-30T00:10:22Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > {…} What if someone’s religious beliefs are that Christ will only return after a millennium of Christian rule on earth–the post-millenialist movement that’s so influenced the modern religious right? Can I call them religious nutjobs? Or does that make me a bigot? {…} And we shan’t go into what they claim their god’s plan is for the Jews . . . because it’s the very root of Christian antisemitism. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/139 "2022-06-30T00:19:56Z")
You don’t know what you are talking about: > **[Catholics Should Not Try To Convert Jews, Vatican Commission Says](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/12/10/459223058/catholics-should-not-try-to-convert-jews-vatican-commission-says#:~:text=%22Pope%20Francis%20states%20that%20'while,and%20to%20help%20one%20another)** > > Jews don't need to be converted to find salvation, according to a major new document that highlights Catholics' historic ties with Judaism. _…the Vatican has released a new document about Catholics’ historic ties with Jews, whom Pope Benedict once called the church’s “fathers in faith.” Among the panel’s conclusions: Jews don’t need to be converted to find salvation._ _“While affirming salvation through an explicit or even implicit faith in Christ,” the Vatican document reads, “the Church does not question the continued love of God for the chosen people of Israel.”_ Let me repeat that- **“Jews don’t need to be converted to find salvation.”** No doubt some weird sects or individuals are indeed anti-Semitic, but put down that tar brush, it’s wearing out. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877/140 "2022-06-30T00:22:53Z")
Cool . . . now convince Protestant bigots that they should listen to what the Catholic Pope says. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-catholic-bigotry-hate-speech/966877.md?page=8)