# Is Anti-Semitism a serious problem in Norway? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 20, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-semitism-a-serious-problem-in-norway/589733 "2011-07-20T17:08:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-semitism-a-serious-problem-in-norway/589733/141 "2011-07-25T18:16:17Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Either you didn’t read the cite you provided or you’re being intellectually dishonest. > > Nowhere in the Huffpo article you linked to does Dershowitz give a definition of anti-Semitism that you claim he gave. > > So either quote the sentences in the article where Dershowitz defines anti-Semitism the way you claim he does or admit you made a false statement. He doesn’t call them antisemitic outright, just accuses them of using every antisemitic trope in their paper. He has an MO of doing this to anybody who criticises the Israeli regime. He’s done the same thing recently to Chas Freeman, Richard Goldstone, a US Senator, and Desmond Tutu, all of them for either not coming out in favour of the Israeli regime or supporting, in the case of Tutu, a disinvestment programme in Israel to protest at their horrible regime : [http://frontpagemag.com/2010/12/24/tutu-and-the-jews/](http://frontpagemag.com/2010/12/24/tutu-and-the-jews/) That’s just one link for Archbishop Tutu, a man who spent decades working agains t apartheid and was Chairman of South Africa’s Holocaust Remembrance Society and who suddenly discovered he was antisemitic because he pointed out some truths about Israel and organised an Israel disinvestment campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-semitism-a-serious-problem-in-norway/589733/142 "2011-07-25T18:21:23Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > What one does with it is one’s issue to deal with. That has it backwards. Someone expressing hatred towards someone else because of the use of a phrase has the obligation to show that the hatred is justified. > [@](#): > > My issue is this claim that only “knowledgeable people” and “people deep into the study of the field” can have a proper understanding of this concept. And if mine or someone else’s understanding is slivery different they’ll call you on it with the simplest borderline offensive argument – derived from above quoted phrases – “you are not knowledgeable” and “you’re not deep into the study of this field”. I don’t think it is too much to ask that someone criticizing the “chosen people” claim actually know what it means. :dubious: It isn’t like there is some sort of live controversy about this, that there is some sort of reasonable doubt here. Two seconds worth of googling would tell anyone who actually cared what the term actually means to Jews. > [@](#): > > My point is also there is no soft conceptual workaround for this kind of claim for a paradigm defined as such; i.e. any use of “chosen” will have negative connotation; it is exclusionary. Of course, if you are in the paradigm of “choosiness” you will find any other paradigm offensive because most likely it is exclusionary and goes counter to yours (e.g. “supersessionism”). Nor do I think that a claim is somehow inherently offensive, merely because of the use of the word “chosen”. You are attempting to justify the unjustifiable - hatred based on ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-semitism-a-serious-problem-in-norway/589733/143 "2011-07-25T18:22:43Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > That’s the ADL, an organisation who are in the same boat as Dershowitz and all the other smear merchants. I can’t take any poll of their(sic) seriously. As BG pointed out the ADL has been respected for years and they’ve never been accused of faking their studies. If you’re going to claim that they forged this study or that they have a record of forging studies then you’re going to need to provide evidence. Anyway, according to that same study nearly 40% of all British citizens think that British Jews are more loyal to Israel than to the Israeli government. Do you think it’s anti-Semitic to claim that British Jews are more loyal to Israel than to the British government? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-semitism-a-serious-problem-in-norway/589733/144 "2011-07-25T18:26:38Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > He doesn’t call them antisemitic outright So you’re basically admitting that when you claimed that Dershowitz defines any criticism of Israel as being anti-Semitic you were making a claim that turns out to be false. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-semitism-a-serious-problem-in-norway/589733/145 "2011-07-25T18:27:29Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > He’s criticising the Zionist nuts who run the country. He’s criticising their “God’s chosen people” mentality. That’s being anti-Zionist, not antisemitic. The “Chosen people” isn’t a Zionist term - it’s exclusively a Jewish one. Thus, criticizing it has absolutely zero to do with Zionism and 100% to do with Judaism. Moreover, he must know it - and know that it doesn’t mean what he’s claiming - he can hardly claim ignorance, given that his speciality is the study of religions and philosophy. He’s deliberately using an anti-Semitic smear that he must know has no foundation in fact and that has nothing to do with the state of Israel. I dunno why so many are attempting to support him in this. It is about as blatant as can be. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-semitism-a-serious-problem-in-norway/589733/146 "2011-07-25T19:33:33Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > You seem to have shifted your claims from asserting that Dershowitz claims anyone who criticizes Israel is an anti-Semite(which would make him an anti-Semite as well:eek:) to stating that Dershowitz has denounced Finkelstein for collaborating with vicious anti-Semites. I did not actually make the former claim. The latter is Dershowitz’s own account. So, no. I _do_ think that _some_ American advocates for Israel feel that anyone who criticizes actions of the Israeli government is an anti-Semite. Here, I believe I just mentioned that [Lynne Withey characterized his attitude thus](http://m.insidehighered.com/layout/set/dialog/news/2005/06/27/dershowitz). For myself, I’ll just say that Dershowitz’s advocacy for the Israeli government–his justifications for certain conduct which has been condemned by every government in the world except those of the United States, Australia, the Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, and Palau–gets a lot more notice than his criticisms of same. I’ve read a number of Dershowitz’s own writings, and I don’t recall these criticisms that you mention. Perhaps you’d like to provide a link to what you see as his most pointed ones. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Aren’t you fully aware that for years Finkelstein… I’m not fully aware of everything Finkelstein, or Dershowitz, has ever said and done, no. The politics of Israel and Palestine are only one of many interests, and tracking the contributions of these two men in turn are only a small part of that. It’s been all I could do to read a book and several articles and interviews, from each. (Dershowitz has made some interesting remarks about torture at other times.) If you’re under the impression, despite what I said in previous posts, that I’m some kind of fan of Finkelstein’s, that is not the case. I just came in to say that I found _Beyond Chutzpah_ a persuasive, fact-based case for Dershowitz’s intellectual dishonesty with respect to Israel. A documented assertion of fact is just that, regardless of whether it comes from someone whose interpretations I agree entirely with, or partly, or not at all. In Finkelstein’s case, it’s _partly_. With respect to Counterpunch, all I’m aware of there is that [Dershowitz accused Alexander Cockburn and the site of anti-Semitism](http://natcath.org/NCR_Online/archives2/2005d/111105/forum/forum3.htm) in response to their openness to criticisms of _his_ analyses, such as a [book review](http://www.counterpunch.org/gordon10152005.html) by Neve Gordon. (The denial of having tried to stop the UC Press from publishing Finkelstein’s book is contradicted by Withey and others.) Perhaps it would be most accurate to say that Dershowitz feels that anyone who criticizes _Alan Dershowitz_ is an anti-Semite. 😃 I find Finkelstein’s Hezbollah remark ill-considered at best, but my understanding is that it was in the context of discussing Israel’s last incursion there which [killed hundreds of Lebanese civilians including many children](http://www.unicef.org/emerg/index_35274.html). Hezbollah _at that moment_ was acting primarily as a defensive army and [aid organization](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9807E2D6123EF930A1575BC0A9609C8B63). He later said, > [@Norman Finkelstein](#): > > I don’t care about Hizbullah as a political organization. I don’t know much about their politics, and anyhow, it’s irrelevant. I don’t live in Lebanon. It’s a choice that the Lebanese have to make: Who they want to be their leaders, who they want to represent them. But there is a fundamental principle. People have the right to defend their country… I largely agree with this (at least from “I don’t live in Lebanon”), as I think most people do as a general proposition. I wouldn’t have chosen to _frame_ that point at all the way Finkelstein did, with his other remarks; I probably would flatly disagree with some other things he said. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Finally, I assume you’re aware, since Dershowitz points it out in the same article that you’re quoting from, Finkelstein was originally going to appear at Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s “Holocaust conference” but backed out at the last minute because the Iranians wouldn’t give him enough time. > … > I’m also a bit confused by your referencing Finkelstein being Jewish. Not just Jewish. What do _you_ think he was going to say at that conference–deny that his own parents were in death camps? Why do you think the Iranians wouldn’t give him the time he wanted? Why do you think he declined to participate on their terms? I don’t know for sure, but I think reasonable people can conclude that his purpose in all this was not to _advance_ anti-Semitism. In any case, it’s grossly unfair to criticize a man for what he _didn’t_ say at an event that he _didn’t_ participate in. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-semitism-a-serious-problem-in-norway/589733/147 "2011-07-25T20:04:14Z")
Spar, I’m a bit confused by your dodging the fact that Counterpunch is a truther website which had long promulgated the myth that Jews were behind 9/11 to take another swipe at Dershowitz. I notice you also are conceding that Dershowitz was correct that Finkelstein does associate himself with vicious anti-Semites and Holocaust Deniers. Finally, I’ll simply add that deciding that Beyond Chutzpah is reliable strikes me as extremely foolish since Finkelstein has a long history of lying. There’s a reason Depaul denied him for tenure and he can’t get a job in academia. He’s viewed as an unreliable crank by most. Now, if you want to argue that truthers and other assorted cranks make good sources of information go ahead, but most of us don’t. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-semitism-a-serious-problem-in-norway/589733/148 "2011-07-25T22:50:50Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > [http://frontpagemag.com/2010/12/24/tutu-and-the-jews/](http://frontpagemag.com/2010/12/24/tutu-and-the-jews/) > That’s just one link for Archbishop Tutu, a man who spent decades working agains t apartheid and was Chairman of South Africa’s Holocaust Remembrance Society and who suddenly discovered he was antisemitic because he pointed out some truths about Israel […] Readers should note that Dick is arguing in a rather curious manner and wildly distorting the actual facts. Those reading along should check out just the first few words of the article and see if Dershowitz’ complaints against Tutu are, as Dick would have you believe, because Tutu disagrees with him politically. Or if, instead, it’s because Tutu has said some rather anti-Semitic things but Dick is trying to excuse them while beating the drum for the “You can’t ever criticize Israel ever or they try to shut you up as an anti-Semite!” meme. Here’s a bit consistent with fair use: [ > [@](#): > > He has characterized Jews a “peculiar people,” and has accused “the Jews” of causing many of the world’s problems. He once even accused the Jewish state of acting in an “unChristian” way. > […] > Here are some of Tutu’s hateful words, most of them carefully documented in a recent petition by prominent South Africans to terminate him as a “patron” of the two South African Holocaust Centers, because he uses his status with these fine institutions as legitimization for his anti-Jewish rhetoric. > […] > He has said that “the Jews thought they had a monopoly of God: Jesus was angry that they could shut out other human beings.” He has said that Jews have been “fighting against” and being “opposed to” his God. > […] > He has complained that Americans “are scared…to say wrong is wrong because the Jewish lobby is powerful—very powerful.” He has accused Jews—not Israelis—of exhibiting “an arrogance—the arrogance of power because Jews are a powerful lobby in this land and all kinds of people woo their support.” > […] > While attacking Israel for its “collective punishment” of Palestinians—which he claims is worse than what Apartheid South Africa did—he himself has called for the collective punishment of Jewish academics and businesses in Israel by demanding boycotts of all Jewish (but not Muslim or Christian) Israelis. (This call for an anti-Jewish boycott finds its roots in the Nazi “Kauf Nicht beim Juden” campaign of the 1930’s.) When confronted with his double standard against Jews, he has justified it on phony theological grounds: “Whether Jews like it or not, they are a peculiar people. They can’t ever hope to be judged by the same standards which are used for other people.” ]([http://frontpagemag.com/2010/12/24/tutu-and-the-jews/](http://frontpagemag.com/2010/12/24/tutu-and-the-jews/)) Curious errors on Dick’s part. Just one of them thar coincidences. I believe the move in the playbook at this point is to claim that different people have different versions of the truth, and we’ll just leave the actual facts up against the claim that Tutu “suddenly discovered he was antisemitic because he pointed out some truths about Israel”, and people can choose which to believe. Oh yeah, and Tutu also trotted out the ‘you can’t be anti-Semitic if you’re not anti-Arab, because they’re Semitic too!’ line. Oh, yeah, and one of his [del]best friends[/del] doctors is Jewish, too! > [@](#): > > “You know as well as I do that, somehow, the Israeli government is placed on a pedestal [in the U.S.] and to criticize it is to be immediately dubbed anti-Semitic, as if Palestinians were not Semitic.” > […] > Tutu has acknowledged having been frequently accused of being anti-Semitic,” to which he has offered two responses: “Tough luck;” and “my dentist’s name is Dr. Cohen.” ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-semitism-a-serious-problem-in-norway/589733/149 "2011-07-26T17:15:16Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > As BG pointed out the ADL has been respected for years and they’ve never been accused of faking their studies. > > If you’re going to claim that they forged this study or that they have a record of forging studies then you’re going to need to provide evidence. > > Anyway, according to that same study nearly 40% of all British citizens think that British Jews are more loyal to Israel than to the Israeli government. > > Do you think it’s anti-Semitic to claim that British Jews are more loyal to Israel than to the British government? Yes, they’re respected bullshitters. Like that bullshit poll they came up with. Do you know who did the poll for them? A Washinton-based lobbying/political consultancy owned by Likudnik Jewish-Americans half of whom used to work for the ADL, which is basically a lobbying organisation itself these days. ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-semitism-a-serious-problem-in-norway/589733/150 "2011-07-26T17:17:24Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > So you’re basically admitting that when you claimed that Dershowitz defines any criticism of Israel as being anti-Semitic you were making a claim that turns out to be false. Dershowitz calls an Archbishop who is Chairman of the South African Holocaust Rem,embrance Society an “anti\_jewish bigot” because he called for disinvestment in Israel and called the Israeli regime an apartheid regime. So my cite is an exact qualification of my original point, that Dershowitz calls people who criticise Israel antisemitic. ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-semitism-a-serious-problem-in-norway/589733/151 "2011-07-26T17:29:56Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > The “Chosen people” isn’t a Zionist term - it’s exclusively a Jewish one. Thus, criticizing it has absolutely zero to do with Zionism and 100% to do with Judaism. > > Moreover, he must know it - and know that it doesn’t mean what he’s claiming - he can hardly claim ignorance, given that his speciality is the study of religions and philosophy. > > He’s deliberately using an anti-Semitic smear that he must know has no foundation in fact and that has nothing to do with the state of Israel. > > I dunno why so many are attempting to support him in this. It is about as blatant as can be. The chosen people thing is something you hear from the nuts in the Israeli governing coalitions to justify their actions and it’s this that the author of the articvle is referring to. I think Americans who justify anything they and their country does because they’re god’s chosen people are nutters, I think the same of the Afrikkaans people who used the same chosen thing to justify their actions over the last century. I don’t think either viewpoint makes me anti-American or anti-South African, just anti-violent/racist nutjobs. And I’m also, like the author of the article, against the violent/racist israeli nutjobs who use the chosen thing to justify their actions against the palestinians. You’ve got to realise that the Israel-Palestine thing receives very different coverage in Europe and the rest of the world to the way it’s covered in America. most American media shows israelis under attack from all sides (gross oversimplification here) while most of the rest of the world sees the Palestinians under occupation for forty years and coverage of the Israeli government which you don’t see in America. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-semitism-a-serious-problem-in-norway/589733/152 "2011-07-26T17:55:17Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > Dershowitz calls an Archbishop who is Chairman of the South African Holocaust Rem,embrance Society an “anti\_jewish bigot” because he called for disinvestment in Israel and called the Israeli regime an apartheid regime. So my cite is an exact qualification of my original point, that Dershowitz calls people who criticise Israel antisemitic. I’m not sure why being an “Archbishop” precludes one from being an anti-Semite. That said, you clearly didn’t read the article clearly. Dershowitz doesn’t accuse Tutu of having issues with Jews because of his criticism of Israel, but because of comments he’s made about Jews. > [@](#): > > the Jews thought they had a monopoly of God: Jesus was angry that they could shut out other human beings That’s a pretty anti-Semitic statement and it also uses classic anti-Semitic language. He also has specifically accused Israel of behaving in an “UnChristian manner” which is something that most Jews would object to. Finally, he’s claimed > [@](#): > > “Whether Jews like it or not, they are a peculiar people. They can’t ever hope to be judged by the same standards which are used for other people. Sorry dude. You really ought to read your sources closer before making claims they don’t back. However, since you’ve criticized Dershowitz’s decision, then you must disagree Please explain why you think it’s not anti-Semitic to refer to Jews as “a peculiar people” who should be judged by different standards? Please explain why don’t think it’s anti-Semitic to say, “the Jews thought they had a monopoly of God: Jesus was angry that they could shut out other human beings”? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-semitism-a-serious-problem-in-norway/589733/153 "2011-07-26T18:00:13Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > Yes, they’re respected bullshitters. Like that bullshit poll they came up with. Do you know who did the poll for them? A Washinton-based lobbying/political consultancy owned by Likudnik Jewish-Americans half of whom used to work for the ADL, which is basically a lobbying organisation itself these days. You’ve yet to produce any evidence to back up your claims about the ADL. Also, why did you feel the name to referring to the owners of hat company being “Likudnik Jewish-Americans” instead of just “Likudniks”. Had they been Italian-Americans would you have referred to them as “Italian-Americans”? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-semitism-a-serious-problem-in-norway/589733/154 "2011-07-26T19:24:50Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > The chosen people thing is something you hear from the nuts in the Israeli governing coalitions to justify their actions I wonder if that’s like how Dick heard that Dershowitz was trying to slander poor, innocent Desmond Tutu simply because Tutu had a different political opinion, even while Dick himself linked to an article where Dershowitz called Tutu on the carpet with regards to a series of blatantly anti-Semitic statements that he’d made. Hrm… hard to tell, no cite at all this time. Maybe one will be forthcoming. Perhaps it will even bear a passing resemblance to what Dick claims it says this time, too. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-semitism-a-serious-problem-in-norway/589733/155 "2011-07-26T20:12:27Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > The chosen people thing is something you hear from the nuts in the Israeli governing coalitions to justify their actions and it’s this that the author of the articvle is referring to. I think Americans who justify anything they and their country does because they’re god’s chosen people are nutters, I think the same of the Afrikkaans people who used the same chosen thing to justify their actions over the last century. I don’t think either viewpoint makes me anti-American or anti-South African, just anti-violent/racist nutjobs. And I’m also, like the author of the article, against the violent/racist israeli nutjobs who use the chosen thing to justify their actions against the palestinians. > > You’ve got to realise that the Israel-Palestine thing receives very different coverage in Europe and the rest of the world to the way it’s covered in America. most American media shows israelis under attack from all sides (gross oversimplification here) while most of the rest of the world sees the Palestinians under occupation for forty years and coverage of the Israeli government which you don’t see in America. Heh, you must be reading some different article. The one I read was full of specifically Christian criticisms of Judaism. There was no attempt, none, to make the critique specific to some political subset of the Israeli government. In any case, only a small subset of Zionists are even religious (and certainly the original Zionists largely were not). Extracts: > [@](#): > > We don’t believe in the notion of God’s Chosen People. We laugh at this people’s capriciousness and weep at its misdeeds. To act as God’s Chosen People is not only stupid and arrogant, but a crime against humanity. We call it racism. > > … > > We laugh uneasily at those who still believe that the god of flora, fauna and the galaxies has selected one people in particular as his favorite and given it silly, stone tablets, burning bushes and a license to kill. > > … > > Two thousand years have passed since a Jewish rabbi criticized the ancient doctrine of “an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.” > > He said: “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” We do not recognize a state founded on anti-humanistic principles and on the ruins of an archaic national and warlike religion. > > … > > The Jewish rabbi claimed two thousand years ago that the Kingdom of God is not a martial restoration of the Kingdom of David; the Kingdom of God is within us and amongst us. The Kingdom of God is compassion and forgiveness. > > Two thousand years have passed since the Jewish rabbi disarmed and thoroughly humanized the old rhetoric of war. Even in his time, the first Zionist terrorists were operating. There you have it - the “Jewish Rabbi” referenced here is, obviously, Christ; his religion - Christianity, characterised by “compassion and foregiveness” - is contrasted with “an archaic national and warlike religion” - obviously, Judaism - which is characterized by “the old rhetoric of war” which has " silly, stone tablets, burning bushes and a license to kill". He’s Christian witnessing concerning the superiority of Christianity over Judaism, and in the most obnoxiously bigoted way possible. None of which is necessary relationship with the nation-state of Israel, other than it forms the traget for his anger. The state of coverage of Arab-Israeli issues did not cause this author to Christian-witness, surely. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-semitism-a-serious-problem-in-norway/589733/156 "2011-07-26T22:22:41Z")
Back to discussions of Norway. When half of all Norwegian schoolchildren say they’ve heard the word “Jew” used as an insult, anti-Semitism is clearly something of a problem. [http://antisemitism.org.il/article/65466/antisemitism-norwegian-schools-‘jewish-leaders…-bear-special-responsibility…’](http://antisemitism.org.il/article/65466/antisemitism-norwegian-schools-%E2%80%98jewish-leaders%E2%80%A6-bear-special-responsibility%E2%80%A6%E2%80%99) ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-semitism-a-serious-problem-in-norway/589733/157 "2011-07-26T22:26:02Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Heh, you must be reading some different article. The one I read was full of specifically Christian criticisms of Judaism. Well but, yes and, you see, because, and now, obviously, of course, and so, it follows that, except, understandably, generally, due to certain… I hope that this helps you to understand now, Malthus, that Dick and his fellow travelers are being persecuted simply because they’re critical of Israel. And they’re forced, _forced_ to defend anti-Semitism if the bigot in question has a bone to pick with Israel. Why, isn’t it a famous poem about the Holocaust that says: First they criticized the racists, and I didn’t speak out because I was not a racist. Then they criticized the bigots, and I didn’t speak out because I was not a bigot. Then they criticized the wilfully ignorant and obstinately erroneous, and I didn’t speak out because I chose not to comprehend what was being said or change my conclusion. Then they criticized those whose narratives were counter-factual and partisan, and there was nobody left to speak for me except much of the rest of the world. And then the Jewish-Lobby Dominated United States called me an anti-Semite! Well, they didn’t actually say it out loud, but they were totally thinking it. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-semitism-a-serious-problem-in-norway/589733/158 "2011-07-27T03:54:18Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > When half of all Norwegian schoolchildren say they’ve heard the word “Jew” used as an insult, anti-Semitism is clearly something of a problem. I’m sure more than half of schoolchildren have heard the word “gay” used as an insult. I’m not denying that our societies are still homophobic to a certain degree, but it’s definitely getting better. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-semitism-a-serious-problem-in-norway/589733/159 "2011-07-27T04:16:06Z")
When we don’t use the word “gay” at all to mean “bad”, then we’ll be doing much better. But Ibn is right. There’s a reason that the suicide rate among gay teens, in particular, is to bad. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-semitism-a-serious-problem-in-norway/589733/160 "2011-07-27T04:18:14Z")
[There are only 818 Jews in Norway,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Norway#Religion) out of a total population of 4.9 million. How does antisemitism get any traction anyway?! How many Norwegians have ever **seen** a Jew? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-semitism-a-serious-problem-in-norway/589733.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anti-semitism-a-serious-problem-in-norway/589733.md?page=9)