# Is Antifa a thing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 9, 2020, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309 "2020-06-09T18:15:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/21 "2020-06-11T01:57:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes. Antifa was just a name some well meaning guys called themselves when they went to counter-protest vs Nazis and KKK here in America. They have no organization, no membership cards, nothing. > > Now, even tho most of what Antifa has done has been good, they do have a few black marks- they have done violence vs some white supremacists. I cant condone violence, but in this case, it is hard to condemn it strongly either. > > Next as Wesley Clark says above, Antifa let itself be infiltrated by Black bloc anarchists, who look to turn peaceful protests into violent ones. Now sure, since there is no "Antifa’ organization, they cant exactly ask for ID cards, but the well meaning anti-facist counter-demonstraters just watched and did nothing while Black bloc anarchists- pretending to be Antifa- broke windows and torched cars. I blame them for doing nothing. This gave Antifa a bad name. > So, no, “Antifa” isn’t terrorist by nature, but it is easily infiltrated by those that want violence. Political mob violence by masked individuals to deprive people of constitutional freedoms is a form of terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/22 "2020-06-11T01:58:36Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Political mob violence by masked individuals to deprive people of constitutional freedoms is a form of terrorism. Does it meet the US legal definition of “terrorism”? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/23 "2020-06-11T02:12:20Z")
> **[18 U.S. Code § 2331 - Definitions](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2331)** According to that, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/24 "2020-06-11T02:17:54Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > [18 U.S. Code § 2331 - Definitions | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2331) > > According to that, yes. I see. Did this “antifa” commit acts that “occur[ed] primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the United States”? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/25 "2020-06-11T02:20:40Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I see. Did this “antifa” commit acts that “occur[ed] primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the United States”? Lol… it depends on what is is gambit? Have fun with that. It would help if you actually read the cite beyond the first sentence and got to the #5. It only takes 10 seconds. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/26 "2020-06-11T02:22:29Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Lol… it depends on what is is gambit? Have fun with that. gambit? I don’t know what you are talking about. I asked you a serious question. Your inclination to answer it or not is incumbent on your own personal integrity. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/27 "2020-06-11T02:52:35Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > gambit? I don’t know what you are talking about. I asked you a serious question. Your inclination to answer it or not is incumbent on your own personal integrity. Sure. But it’s very silly to ask for a definition and when a link is provided not take the effort to read beyond the first sentence. So how about you take 10-15 seconds and actually read the cite? No worries either way. I’m used to inconvenient cites being ignored. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/28 "2020-06-11T03:09:52Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Political mob violence by masked individuals to deprive people of constitutional freedoms is a form of terrorism. > [@Slash1972](#): > > Does it meet the US legal definition of “terrorism”? It meets the definition of “domestic terrorism” in the link which octopus subsequently supplies. But it would meet that definition even if the individuals weren’t masked. The masks are completely irrelevant. And reflecting on that leads to the realisation that many of the actions taken by law enforcement agents against the protestors also meet the definition of “domestic terrorism”. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/29 "2020-06-11T03:17:18Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > How did they pretend to be Antifa? Dressed like them, held the same signs, mixed in with them. Used some of the same languages and buzz words. They did **NOT** wear Nazi regalia, white hoods, or carry White power placards like the other side. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/30 "2020-06-11T03:18:29Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Political mob violence by masked individuals to deprive people of constitutional freedoms is a form of terrorism. That is true, but Antifa didn’t do it. **Anarchists** _pretending_ to be antifa did it. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/31 "2020-06-11T03:53:35Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Sure. But it’s very silly to ask for a definition and when a link is provided not take the effort to read beyond the first sentence. So how about you take 10-15 seconds and actually read the cite? > > No worries either way. I’m used to inconvenient cites being ignored. Pretty sure that the police meet that definition too. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/32 "2020-06-11T03:54:42Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Dressed like them, held the same signs, mixed in with them. Used some of the same languages and buzz words. > > They did **NOT** wear Nazi regalia, white hoods, or carry White power placards like the other side. How does Antifa dress and what signs do they hold? How do you know how “antifa” dresses? How do you know what signs “antifa” holds? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/33 "2020-06-11T04:39:43Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > How does Antifa dress and what signs do they hold? How do you know how “antifa” dresses? How do you know what signs “antifa” holds? I follow the news. Take a look at pictures of antifa pcounter protestors at the Unite the Right Rally, see the _guys counter protesting_ the assholes with Nazi & confederate flags and KKK symbols? > **[Unite the Right rally](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally)** > > Counter-protesters > Protesters > American militia movement [https://www.google.com/search?q=Unite+the+Right+rally+antifa&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjdkLqq9\_jpAhURADQIHZ-dBXUQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=Unite+the+Right+rally+antifa&gs\_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzoCCABQhxVYxyJg-iNoAHAAeACAAZ4BiAH9BJIBAzYuMZgBAKABAaoBC2d3cy13aXotaW1n&sclient=img&ei=B7ThXp3xOpGA0PEPn7uWqAc&bih=837&biw=1598#imgrc=ZBCDGFRJvl4MHM&imgdii=biCKE3Tv7Tl85M](https://www.google.com/search?q=Unite+the+Right+rally+antifa&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjdkLqq9_jpAhURADQIHZ-dBXUQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=Unite+the+Right+rally+antifa&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzoCCABQhxVYxyJg-iNoAHAAeACAAZ4BiAH9BJIBAzYuMZgBAKABAaoBC2d3cy13aXotaW1n&sclient=img&ei=B7ThXp3xOpGA0PEPn7uWqAc&bih=837&biw=1598#imgrc=ZBCDGFRJvl4MHM&imgdii=biCKE3Tv7Tl85M) Those are antifa. “Smash White supremacy” “Make racists afraid again” “good night white pride” “In the name of humanity we refuse to accept a fascist america”, and so forth. Are you actually having problems with this? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/34 "2020-06-11T04:48:51Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I follow the news. Take a look at pictures of antifa pcounter protestors at the Unite the Right Rally, see the _guys counter protesting_ the assholes with Nazi & confederate flags and KKK symbols? > > [Unite the Right rally - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally) > > [https://www.google.com/search?q=Unite+the+Right+rally+antifa&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjdkLqq9\_jpAhURADQIHZ-dBXUQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=Unite+the+Right+rally+antifa&gs\_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzoCCABQhxVYxyJg-iNoAHAAeACAAZ4BiAH9BJIBAzYuMZgBAKABAaoBC2d3cy13aXotaW1n&sclient=img&ei=B7ThXp3xOpGA0PEPn7uWqAc&bih=837&biw=1598#imgrc=ZBCDGFRJvl4MHM&imgdii=biCKE3Tv7Tl85M](https://www.google.com/search?q=Unite+the+Right+rally+antifa&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjdkLqq9_jpAhURADQIHZ-dBXUQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=Unite+the+Right+rally+antifa&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzoCCABQhxVYxyJg-iNoAHAAeACAAZ4BiAH9BJIBAzYuMZgBAKABAaoBC2d3cy13aXotaW1n&sclient=img&ei=B7ThXp3xOpGA0PEPn7uWqAc&bih=837&biw=1598#imgrc=ZBCDGFRJvl4MHM&imgdii=biCKE3Tv7Tl85M) > > Those are antifa. > > “Smash White supremacy” “Make racists afraid again” “good night white pride” “In the name of humanity we refuse to accept a fascist america”, and so forth. > > Are you actually having problems with this? 😕 I see. So anyone counter-protesting Nazis is “antifa”? Your second cite is just a Google search. Last time I checked, and was checked by my professors, a link to a Google search isn’t proof. Got anything else? I think we should “Smash White supremacy” If I post that on Facebook, does that make me ‘antifa’? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/35 "2020-06-11T04:59:53Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Also largely imaginary, it seems. In what way is a group of folks that actually exist ‘imaginary?’ ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/36 "2020-06-11T05:01:41Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > In what way is a group of folks that actually exist ‘imaginary?’ Do they exist? Prove it. Without using YouTube videos. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/37 "2020-06-11T05:07:40Z")
Via Phil Plate, former Doper AKA The Bad Astronomer: > **["You know who ELSE was antifa?" | Donald Trump's Designation of Antifa as a...](https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1856574-donald-trumps-designation-of-antifa-as-a-terrorist-organization)** > > See more 'Donald Trump's Designation of Antifa as a Terrorist Organization' images on Know Your Meme! > [@](#): > > You know who ELSE was Antifa? Photo of Americans landing at Normandy in WWII ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/38 "2020-06-11T05:14:47Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Do they exist? Prove it. Without using YouTube videos. I don’t need to prove the earth is round nor do I need to prove antifa exists. Now, what you want to believe is up to you. Are you saying antifa does not exist? Yes or no. What’s your stance? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/39 "2020-06-11T05:16:12Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Via Phil Plate, former Doper AKA The Bad Astronomer: > > ["You know who ELSE was antifa?" | Donald Trump's Designation of Antifa as a Terrorist Organization | Know Your Meme](https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1856574-donald-trumps-designation-of-antifa-as-a-terrorist-organization) > > Photo of Americans landing at Normandy in WWII Those folks were actually brave as compared to the LARPers that bully old folks for having a different opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/40 "2020-06-11T05:22:13Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I don’t need to prove the earth is round nor do I need to prove antifa exists. Now, what you want to believe is up to you. Are you saying antifa does not exist? Yes or no. What’s your stance? I have this weird quirk that I don’t believe something exists unless somebody proves it. I guess I’m strange like that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309.md?page=3)