# Is Antifa a thing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 9, 2020, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309 "2020-06-09T18:15:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/41 "2020-06-11T05:26:06Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I see. So anyone counter-protesting Nazis is “antifa”? Your second cite is just a Google search. Last time I checked, and was checked by my professors, a link to a Google search isn’t proof. > > Got anything else? > > I think we should “Smash White supremacy” If I post that on Facebook, does that make me ‘antifa’? This post appears rather obtuse. You asked how Antifa looks and what their signs say, I directed you to a page full of picture of Antifa counter-protestors at the Unite the Right Rally. Look at the pretty pictures. See the nice men (and women) opposite the nasty men with Nazi and confederate flags? Those nice men are Antifa. Now wasnt that easy? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/42 "2020-06-11T05:26:10Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I have this weird quirk that I don’t believe something exists unless somebody proves it. I guess I’m strange like that. What would be sufficient proof? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/43 "2020-06-11T05:28:14Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Look at the pretty pictures. See the nice men (and women) opposite the nasty men with Nazi and confederate flags? Those nice men are Antifa. > > Now wasnt that easy? How do you know they are antifa? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/44 "2020-06-11T05:33:31Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > What would be sufficient proof? An organizational chart that lays out the leaders of “antifa”. or someone who is arrested that says they are the Grand Dragon (or what ‘antifa’ uses) of antifa and can prove they are a leader of ‘antifa’ or someone who is arrested, who says they are ‘antifa’ and other member of ‘antifa’, who prove they are ‘antifa’, protest the arrest of their fellow ‘antifa’ member. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/45 "2020-06-11T05:39:01Z")
You don’t need an organizational chart to exist. You realize there are many groups of people that don’t put together an organization chart in PowerPoint and they do and did exist. There are many legitimate news organizations that reference antifa. > **[A Look At 'Antifa'](https://www.npr.org/2017/08/26/546323215/a-look-at-antifa)** > > NPR's Scott Simon talks with Mother Jones magazine's Wes Enzinna about the anti-fascist, or antifa, movement, including their goals and willingness to use violent tactics. > **[What Is Antifa, the Movement Trump Wants to Declare a Terror Group?](https://www.nytimes.com/article/what-antifa-trump.html)** > > President Trump has blamed anti-fascist protesters for inciting violence at protests and tried to link “far left” activists to his mainstream Democratic opponent, Joe Biden. > **[What is Antifa? | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/14/us/what-is-antifa-trnd/index.html)** > > After protests in Charlottesville, Virginia, turned violent on Saturday, leaving three people dead and dozens more injured, onlookers began to wonder what happened, who was involved and why. But you know all this and have already conceded as much but just downplayed and supported the violence in other threads on this very subject. Why the sudden 180? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/46 "2020-06-11T05:43:40Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You don’t need an organizational chart to exist. You realize there are many groups of people that don’t put together an organization chart in PowerPoint and they do and did exist. There are many legitimate news organizations that reference antifa. > > [A Look At 'Antifa' : NPR](https://www.npr.org/2017/08/26/546323215/a-look-at-antifa) > [https://www.nytimes.com/article/what-antifa-trump.html](https://www.nytimes.com/article/what-antifa-trump.html) > [https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/14/us/what-is-antifa-trnd/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/14/us/what-is-antifa-trnd/index.html) > > But you know all this and have already conceded as much but just downplayed and supported the violence in other threads on this very subject. Why the sudden 180? There are many legitimate news organizations that reference Bigfoot. There are actual laws in some states that outlaw the killing of Bigfoot. Does that mean that Bigfoot is real? Do you believe in Bigfoot? Any thing else you got? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/47 "2020-06-11T05:44:29Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > How do you know they are antifa? Maybe, you could read the article I gave you about the Antifa counter-protestors at the Unite the Right Rally. See, I read cites from news organizations and wikipedia, i look at the cites wiki gives, I do this thing called 'reading, research and thinking". Let me ask you a question- how do _you_ **know** Delaware exists? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/48 "2020-06-11T05:49:32Z")
> [@Should Antifa violence be condemned?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/314): > > Ok fine. Yes, antifa violence should be condemned. But the violence that they have perpetrated upon people is less than the violence of Eagles fans after the super bowl win. Until antifa violence surpasses the violence caused by sports fans, I won’t waste my time publicly condemning them, because there are much bigger things to be worried about than a group of 20 guys burning a car. > > Unless the car belong to a nazi or white supremacist. Then, they can burn that thing and I will applaud them. > [@Slash1972](#): > > There are many legitimate news organizations that reference Bigfoot. There are actual laws in some states that outlaw the killing of Bigfoot. Does that mean that Bigfoot is real? Do you believe in Bigfoot? > > Any thing else you got? Why would you condemn that which you state does not exist? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/49 "2020-06-11T05:53:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Maybe, you could read the article I gave you about the Antifa counter-protestors at the Unite the Right Rally. See, I read cites from news organizations and wikipedia, i look at the cites wiki gives, I do this thing called 'reading, research and thinking". > > Let me ask you a question- how do _you_ **know** Delaware exists? That article offered no proof that those protesters were ‘antifa’ ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/50 "2020-06-11T05:55:03Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Why would you condemn that which you state does not exist? I also condemn vampires and werewolves. Just in case somebody proves they exist. Does that help? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/51 "2020-06-11T06:02:45Z")
Well, you referred to a very specific act of violence that you conditionally condemned and conditionally advocated. I would say that that’s substantially different than a belated condemnation of supernatural entities. No True Scotsman fallacy and goal posts moving aside you are free to believe what you wish as long as the SJW mob doesn’t know your employer or place of education at least. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/52 "2020-06-11T06:08:16Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Well, you referred to a very specific act of violence that you conditionally condemned and conditionally advocated. I would say that that’s substantially different than a belated condemnation of supernatural entities. No True Scotsman fallacy and goal posts moving aside you are free to believe what you wish as long as the SJW mob doesn’t know your employer or place of education at least. Sorry, I forgot the “if that was antifa” clause in my post. Other than punching self-proclaimed Nazis in the face, I’m against violence. Of course, you are free to be afraid of ‘antifa’ because you read a wiki page about them. I reserve the right to mock you for it. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/53 "2020-06-11T06:29:18Z")
Acknowledging the existence of cowardly punks who only bully those they outnumber 5-1 or are over 80 is not something I fear directly. I fear their tactics of violence and terror in order to deprive people of fundamental liberties. Their existence and their tactics are counterproductive and it would be hard to manufacture a more effective foil than these hypocritical left wing wannabe stormtroopers. And that tactic of goal post shifting and demanding an ‘organizational’ ‘chart’ is utterly ridiculous to any neutral observer. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/54 "2020-06-11T10:03:08Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Acknowledging the existence of cowardly punks who only bully those they outnumber 5-1 or are over 80 is not something I fear directly. I fear their tactics of violence and terror in order to deprive people of fundamental liberties. Their existence and their tactics are counterproductive and it would be hard to manufacture a more effective foil than these hypocritical left wing wannabe stormtroopers. > > And that tactic of goal post shifting and demanding an ‘organizational’ ‘chart’ is utterly ridiculous to any neutral observer. If you want to declare them to be a “terrorist organisation”, as Trump does, they do as an irreducible minimum have to be an organisation. And the project pretty much falls over at that hurdle. Based on the definitiion of “domestic terrorism” that you helpfully linked to earlier, you could make a much better case for declaring a few police forces to be terrorist organisations. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/55 "2020-06-11T15:42:21Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > What Antifa organization? Are you aware of a central command structure for an ideology that is intentionally unorganized and spread out that everyone is unaware of? > > Scott Wood was considered enough of an expert as to be interviewed by credible news sources about Antifa. If you disagree, feel free to provide arguments and sources for your opinion. Do your own work. Show us where Scott Wood is the official spokesperson for Antifa. Otherwise he is just some guy who self-proclaimed himself a spokesperson for an organization that does not exist. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/56 "2020-06-11T16:32:17Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > This post appears rather obtuse. You asked how Antifa looks and what their signs say, I directed you to a page full of picture of Antifa counter-protestors at the Unite the Right Rally. > > Look at the pretty pictures. See the nice men (and women) opposite the nasty men with Nazi and confederate flags? Those nice men are Antifa. If you had powers of arrest, and could pull some of those people out of the crowd and charge them as being Antifa, what evidence would you be looking for? Apart from the ones carrying the signs “I am Antifa” or “fascism is bad”, what would be the smoking gun that proves a person is Antifa? I hope that the mere fact of demonstrating against fascism isn’t enough to make someone a terrorist. That would no doubt cause severe hyperventilation among those who revere free speech so deeply that they insist Nazis should be allowed to demonstrate. As I said before, Antifa is like the Macarena or happiness. It’s conceptually real, but phenomenally unreal. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/57 "2020-06-11T17:55:43Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > If you had powers of arrest, and could pull some of those people out of the crowd and charge them as being Antifa, what evidence would you be looking for? Apart from the ones carrying the signs “I am Antifa” or “fascism is bad”, what would be the smoking gun that proves a person is Antifa? > > I hope that the mere fact of demonstrating against fascism isn’t enough to make someone a terrorist. That would no doubt cause severe hyperventilation among those who revere free speech so deeply that they insist Nazis should be allowed to demonstrate. > > As I said before, Antifa is like the Macarena or happiness. It’s conceptually real, but phenomenally unreal. 1. Thank god here in America, having a political stance is not a arrestable offence. There is a crime: _18 U.S. Code § 2339B.Providing material support or resources to designated foreign terrorist organizations_ > **[Domestic terrorism in the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_terrorism_in_the_United_States#Definitions_of_domestic_terrorism)** > > In the United States, domestic terrorism is defined as terrorist acts that were carried out within the United States by U.S. citizens and/or U.S. permanent residents. As of 2021, the United States government considers white supremacists to be the top domestic terrorism threat. > The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) defines domestic terrorism as violent, criminal acts which are committed by individuals and/or groups in order to further ideological goals stemming from domestic influences, s... _While the PATRIOT Act defines “domestic terrorism” for the purposes of authorizing law enforcement investigations, no federal criminal offense exists which is referred to as “domestic terrorism”. While international terrorism (“acts of terrorism transcending national boundaries”) is a defined crime in federal law,[5] acts of domestic terrorism are charged under specific laws, such as killing federal agents or “attempting to use explosives to destroy a building in interstate commerce”.[6]_ So, even if antifa was a organization- which it is not- belonging to it would not be a crime anyway. Pretty much that would be Unconstitutional. However, some people do self-identify as antifa. Of course it shouldnt be, but trump needs a target he can blame, like the Nazis and the Jews. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/58 "2020-06-13T03:22:04Z")
I read a good article today in the Washington Examiner who pointed out the phrase “anti-fascist” goes back 100 years and was invented by the Soviets. Why? Well “communist” sounded pretty bad so because they were fighting fascists, they coined the term “anti fascist”. So they were fighting fascism so that makes them the good guys - right? No antifa has used the phrase that makes them seem like the good guys because on occasion they might go after some skinheads or white nazis and such. That makes them the good guys, right? Well, maybe not. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/59 "2020-06-13T04:02:56Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I read a good article today in the Washington Examiner […] Hilarious ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309/60 "2020-06-13T04:10:05Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I read a good article today in the Washington Examiner who pointed out the phrase “anti-fascist” goes back 100 years and was invented by the Soviets. Why? Well “communist” sounded pretty bad so because they were fighting fascists, they coined the term “anti fascist”. > > So they were fighting fascism so that makes them the good guys - right? > > No antifa has used the phrase that makes them seem like the good guys because on occasion they might go after some skinheads or white nazis and such. > > That makes them the good guys, right? > > Well, maybe not. And 100 years ago the KKK was all Democrats and Lincoln freed the slaves and and and and and! Is that the best you’ve got? You’re angry at the people that punch Nazis and defend churches from white supremacists? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antifa-a-thing/855309.md?page=4)