# Is antivirus really necessary? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 14, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antivirus-really-necessary/539445 "2010-05-14T16:35:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![FluffyBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@FluffyBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FluffyBob)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antivirus-really-necessary/539445/1 "2010-05-14T16:35:04Z")
Does everyone here actually use antivirus software? Is it not all just inconvenient, even detrimental, bloatware? I have not used any resident antivirus software on windows systems for 12 years - since I built my first PC and installed and then soon removed Norton or McAffee or whatever came with my motherboard. In those 12 years I have found exactly 2 virus infections, one from a house guest that was installing (against my wishes and then uninstalling to hide the fact) an irc chat client and managed download somethiing nasty. I use malware tools - Windows Defender is scheduled (never seems to find anything) and I scan with Malewarebytes once in a blue moon. If I think something is fishy I do an online scan with Housecall. I use Firefox, and gmail instead of IE or Outlook and I do not use or install IM clients (get off my lawn). Like everyone else with a broadband connection I have a router with hardware firewall. I even have UAC turned off on one of my Win 7 machines because it was interfering with some hardware utilities I am running. Occasionally I have installed a a big name antivirus product to see if I was missing anything and they have never been able to find anything. The malware stuff occasionally finds unwanted critters, but 9/10 of these are truly marginal issues. From my understanding I needed the malware tools rater than antivirus software to remove the 1/10 that were a real concern anyway. Yes I know that these infections can be a pain in the ass to clean, but I do a clean install of windows every few years anyways so if things get really bad that is an option that I find pretty painless quite honestly. My data is on a separate drive from the OS and never has been affected. I also really doubt, just from the sheer number of infection complaints out there that antivirus software always (or maybe even rarely) prevents infection in the first place. I have had more trouble from hardware failure than from malware, and for that reason alone I have data backups. On some level this is just a convenience vs security issue and convenience is much more important to me than security, I realize that it is the other way around for the majority of people. It has also been a long time since I used anything and I suppose some of the new products might be pretty good / transparent. But still I cant be the onlyone that has little use for this stuff. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antivirus-really-necessary/539445/2 "2010-05-14T16:43:21Z")
Most users don’t have the resources or knowledge (or have lost the disks) to do a clean install. They need antivirus. From what you describe, it sounds like your spending far more time scanning and rebuilding than any installing an antivirus would entail. If you have to scan with Housecall, that takes about an hour. You do this whenever you see something fishy – say, five times a year. An antivirus would allow you to save those five hours. Most antivirus nowadays doesn’t affect performance. Any hit is far less than five hours a year. And if it detects one virus that you would have missed, it is more than worth that. So you don’t have convenience _or_ security. ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antivirus-really-necessary/539445/3 "2010-05-14T16:44:26Z")
Didn’t we have this discussion, like eh, last month? I think of it as a social responsbility and it never given me any grief. What I use is AVG, and even though it isn’t one of the best, it’s good enough for me. I have heard horrible stories about Norton and McAffee though. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antivirus-really-necessary/539445/4 "2010-05-14T16:49:07Z")
> [@FluffyBob](#): > > I use Firefox, and gmail instead of IE or Outlook and I do not use or install IM clients (get off my lawn). Like everyone else with a broadband connection I have a router with hardware firewall. you’re only reducing your exposure to \*some \*threats this way (having said that, installed AV software only reduces the impact of some threats - it still doesn’t guarantee 100% protection) > [@](#): > > I even have UAC turned off on one of my Win 7 machines because it was interfering with some hardware utilities I am running. Maybe someone can check me on this, but I thought that turning off UAC made you _less_ secure. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antivirus-really-necessary/539445/5 "2010-05-14T17:13:21Z")
We had a discussion about this a couple months ago in [IMHO](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=553585). ---
**Author:** ![FluffyBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@FluffyBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FluffyBob)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antivirus-really-necessary/539445/6 "2010-05-14T17:33:44Z")
Sorry I missed the other thread. I did do a quick search but found it difficult to differentiate my question from all the common occurrences of ‘antivirus’ on the boards. Yes disabling UAC is a reduction of security - I did it for convenience. I doubt I spend five hours a year, I run Housecall maybe once a year and I don’t have to be there. Windows defender runs automatically and I would think something like malewarebytes has to be run occasionally whether you have Av or not. I may take a look at some of the newer suggestions. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antivirus-really-necessary/539445/7 "2010-05-14T17:41:45Z")
Speaking from experience, If you have kids you need strong antivirus protection. In fact I am going to force my kids to use Linux due to repeated viruses they have put on my system. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antivirus-really-necessary/539445/8 "2010-05-14T17:46:57Z")
**FluffyBob** : you don’t visit pornographic websites at all, do you? 🙂 Also-isn’t Trend Micro’s Housecall an AV program? I’m pretty sure it is. ---
**Author:** ![Silophant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a698b9/32.png) [@Silophant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silophant)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antivirus-really-necessary/539445/9 "2010-05-14T17:51:48Z")
I don’t use antivirus. If you know what you’re doing, you don’t need it. I’ve gotten maybe three or four viruses in my time, and I knew exactly what stupid thing I had done to get them. That being said, when I set up computers for other people, I install Microsoft Security Essentials. It’s free and really lightweight. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antivirus-really-necessary/539445/10 "2010-05-14T17:58:24Z")
[rant] I wish people would stop using the term “hardware firewall”, implying that it’s somehow better than a mere “software firewall”. For one thing, all firewalls are software firewalls. The task is far too complex and dynamic for it be performed just by some fixed hardware design. And for another thing, when people say “hardware firewall”, usually what they mean is the inherent protection you get from being behind a NAT device. It is true that being behind NAT does make you more secure, but that has nothing to do with firewalls. Firewalls are about controlling traffic that has already been allowed by lower-level routing, NAT and so on. Maybe they mean the rudimentary firewall software that is included with consumer-level “routers”, but again that is software, not hardware. And sometimes not very good software. ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antivirus-really-necessary/539445/11 "2010-05-14T18:16:47Z")
I have to say yes. I don’t use one but I have an image of my machine and I rarely go six months without re-installing everything anyway. Most people don’t know what to avoid and the ‘drive-by’ infections are becoming more sophisticated every day. Even with protection for most people it’s only a matter of time. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antivirus-really-necessary/539445/12 "2010-05-14T18:26:06Z")
The last virus I got was nasty - it disabled my anti virus so it was very hard to get rid of. I don’t know if that type of virus is common now or not. ---
**Author:** ![FluffyBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@FluffyBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FluffyBob)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antivirus-really-necessary/539445/13 "2010-05-14T18:38:56Z")
Interesting points Ximenean. I simply called it a hardware firewall because that is how I have always heard it referred to. I understand that the primary feature involved is NAT, but since it is in all honesty a separate piece of hardware than my PC, that in least on some level acts as a firewall, it seems like a pretty reasonable term. I have also heard that router is not really a correct term for the devices in our homes, but they do ‘route’ traffic. FoieGrasIsEvil - I guess my porn sites must be run by boy scouts. And yes, Housecall is an AV program but it is not resident and is not running in the background. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antivirus-really-necessary/539445/14 "2010-05-14T18:52:44Z")
I’ve never had an infection on any of my machines. My wife has had two in 12 years. My father-in-law had a lot more. I used to help my daughter’s riding coach with her computer. Her boyfriend went to a lot of gambling sites, and her machine was as infested as a cheap hotel. I kind of see it like vaccinations - you might not need it, but if everyone followed your example and didn’t get them, disease would spread. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antivirus-really-necessary/539445/15 "2010-05-14T18:54:47Z")
I’m to c&p my response from the other thread: > [@](#): > > When I read the thread title, I thought this was going to be a thread about how running a background virus scan is no big deal, so why do people act like they have to move Mt. Rushmore a few inches to the left? > > I too have been online since Win 3.1. Antivirus scanners have come a long way. I’m using Microsoft Security Essentials, at the moment, on Win7. It’s free. It runs in the background. It scans things as I download (and I download a lot). Once a week it does a full scan. What’s the hardship? > > As for why - it’s a little like asking why should you backup your files? Yeah, you probably won’t need it. Yeah, your hardware probably won’t crap out. But if it does, and you weren’t protected - you’ll feel like a freaking moron. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antivirus-really-necessary/539445/16 "2010-05-14T19:03:20Z")
> [@FluffyBob](#): > > Is antivirus really necessary? If you need to ask, the answer is yes. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antivirus-really-necessary/539445/17 "2010-05-14T19:07:07Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > [rant] I wish people would stop using the term “hardware firewall”, implying that it’s somehow better than a mere “software firewall”. For one thing, all firewalls are software firewalls. I use the term “hardware firewall” to refer to my cheap NAT router, and I certainly do imply that it’s better than a mere “software firewall.” Here’s my justification: Hardware firewall: It’s a piece of hardware distinct from the PC. Obviously it’s running its ROM program, and there’s a little bit of RAM in there for making it work. And when I shut it off and/or reset it, it goes back to it’s virgin state and anything malicious that anyone happened to get into memory is gone. That’s a _huge_ plus over a firewall running on your computer OS. Because the “ROM” is flashable, there’s a possibility that someone could gain access to the router and flash a new OS with some nice back doors, but I don’t worry about the probability of that. Better than a software firewall: Nothing else is executing on the router. There’s virtually no possibility of a root kit bypassing my firewall settings. No possibility of some other, hidden software bypassing or changing my settings. Still, I do have my media server DMZ’d and count on its software firewall, but it’s also not a Windows box. ---
**Author:** ![davekhps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@davekhps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davekhps)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antivirus-really-necessary/539445/18 "2010-05-14T19:23:37Z")
I could have written the OP as recently as six months ago. After years of Norton, AVG, all that crap, I was fed up with the stuff and wondering why I ever bothered. I had never gotten anything truly nasty before, ran all the malware stuff regularly, etc. In everyday practice, the harsh reality was that the anti-virus programs were worse than getting viruses in terms of performance degradation, software conflicts, etc. I’m sure had I gotten something truly evil that wouldn’t have been the case, but that was the situation. That said, I knew I needed _something_, so after researching, I too chose Microsoft Security Essentials. It’s absolutely perfect for the OP, methinks. Lightest anti-virus software I’ve ever used, no comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antivirus-really-necessary/539445/19 "2010-05-14T19:31:31Z")
I don’t use antivirus programs, and I haven’t had a problem in recent (several years’) memory. In fact, the one time I _did_ use an antivirus program (I think it was McAfee) it caused me so many problems I finally just deleted it. The only protective stuff I use is what comes with Windows 7 and whatever my ISP provides. And I have an authenticator on my WoW account, of course. 🙂 I practice safe computing, I don’t go to iffy sites, I run Firefox with NoScript, and every once in awhile when I think of it (which isn’t very often) I run Spybot. Haven’t found anything other than a few random pieces of adware. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antivirus-really-necessary/539445/20 "2010-05-14T19:50:57Z")
> [@FluffyBob](#): > > Does everyone here actually use antivirus software? Is it not all just inconvenient, even detrimental, bloatware? > > I have not used any resident antivirus software on windows systems for 12 years - since I built my first PC and installed and then soon removed Norton or McAffee or whatever came with my motherboard. In those 12 years I have found exactly 2 virus infections, one from a house guest that was installing (against my wishes and then uninstalling to hide the fact) an irc chat client and managed download somethiing nasty. > > I use malware tools - Windows Defender is scheduled (never seems to find anything) and I scan with Malewarebytes once in a blue moon. If I think something is fishy I do an online scan with Housecall. I use Firefox, and gmail instead of IE or Outlook and I do not use or install IM clients (get off my lawn). Like everyone else with a broadband connection I have a router with hardware firewall. I even have UAC turned off on one of my Win 7 machines because it was interfering with some hardware utilities I am running. > > Occasionally I have installed a a big name antivirus product to see if I was missing anything and they have never been able to find anything. The malware stuff occasionally finds unwanted critters, but 9/10 of these are truly marginal issues. From my understanding I needed the malware tools rater than antivirus software to remove the 1/10 that were a real concern anyway. > > Yes I know that these infections can be a pain in the ass to clean, but I do a clean install of windows every few years anyways so if things get really bad that is an option that I find pretty painless quite honestly. My data is on a separate drive from the OS and never has been affected. I also really doubt, just from the sheer number of infection complaints out there that antivirus software always (or maybe even rarely) prevents infection in the first place. I have had more trouble from hardware failure than from malware, and for that reason alone I have data backups. > > On some level this is just a convenience vs security issue and convenience is much more important to me than security, I realize that it is the other way around for the majority of people. It has also been a long time since I used anything and I suppose some of the new products might be pretty good / transparent. But still I cant be the onlyone that has little use for this stuff. I’ve heard that a general air of smugness can help with PC prophylaxis. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-antivirus-really-necessary/539445.md?page=2)