# Is any American "a waste"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 25, 2018, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-any-american-a-waste/807450 "2018-01-25T15:10:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-any-american-a-waste/807450/61 "2018-01-25T22:31:20Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Would you mind telling us which religious sect you follow, so that we might know which “God” you are referring to? Based on [this post in your thread about LGBT tolerance](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20710911&postcount=199), it strongly suggests that the answer is either Catholic or Orthodox Christian. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-any-american-a-waste/807450/62 "2018-01-25T23:48:09Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > 😃 > > You’re still my favourite poster Vinyl. Gonna have to agree there. Minus a ‘u’ of course. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Euphrosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d9b06d/32.png) [@Euphrosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphrosyne)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-any-american-a-waste/807450/63 "2018-01-27T12:34:38Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Maybe God put each of us here for a purpose, but that doesn’t mean that we’re all fulfilling that purpose. Many of us aren’t fulfilling His purposes. There are some who are striving to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-any-american-a-waste/807450/64 "2018-01-27T12:44:59Z")
It’s actually kind of hard to just be “a waste”, since that would mean balancing between positive and negative. Many millions of people are outright predatory and destructive; quite a bit worse than _merely_ a waste. ---
**Author:** ![Euphrosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d9b06d/32.png) [@Euphrosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphrosyne)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-any-american-a-waste/807450/65 "2018-01-27T13:00:10Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Your thread title and OP text both mention ‘American’, but never ‘human.’ In your follow-ups you call attention to ‘Christian’ four times. One doesn’t need to “assume ill will or unthinking malice” to find this very peculiar. > > If your intent was to draw a contrast between Americans and non-Americans you could have made that explicit in OP, e.g. “Why can’t Americans behave more like Europeans?” I find it interesting that a number of my fellow commenters here have been troubled by my specifying Americans, and have wondered whether implicit in the formulation was an exclusion of non-Americans. My question is: Is it true that posing a question which specifies a sub-set within a category necessarily implies the exclusion of other sub-sets from the question? For example: If I - or anyone - were to say: “isn’t there a need that more U.S. jobs be created?” would anyone take away the impression that the question implied, “whether more jobs overseas are created is unimportant.” ---
**Author:** ![Euphrosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d9b06d/32.png) [@Euphrosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphrosyne)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-any-american-a-waste/807450/66 "2018-01-27T13:08:33Z")
Quick note to all who have expected a reply: Thanks for your patience. Am hoping to reply to all questions and comments on this thread during breaks from doing all the chores and errands that most of us have to do on the weekends. Am hoping to complete all replies by tomorrow evening. (P.S. Question: would my mention of “chores and errands” this weekend, imply that I don’t expect to do anything fun or relaxing this weekend? Or on any weekend? ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-any-american-a-waste/807450/67 "2018-01-27T13:15:18Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Maybe God put each of us here for a purpose, but that doesn’t mean that we’re all fulfilling that purpose. . . . nor that men are capable of determining what that purpose is and whether it has been fulfilled… ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-any-american-a-waste/807450/68 "2018-01-27T13:22:20Z")
As Richard Russo wrote, of a character in his novel, “Something could have been done about him once, but nobody did.” If nobody does, who is to blame for the outcome? Aren’t we all our brothers’ keepers? ---
**Author:** ![Skara\_Brae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Skara\_Brae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skara_Brae)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-any-american-a-waste/807450/69 "2018-01-27T13:50:41Z")
> [@Euphrosyne](#): > > I find it interesting that a number of my fellow commenters here have been troubled by my specifying Americans, and have wondered whether implicit in the formulation was an exclusion of non-Americans. > > My question is: Is it true that posing a question which specifies a sub-set within a category necessarily implies the exclusion of other sub-sets from the question? > > For example: If I - or anyone - were to say: “isn’t there a need that more U.S. jobs be created?” would anyone take away the impression that the question implied, “whether more jobs overseas are created is unimportant.” There is currently a raging debate in this about about people who grew up in America, but are not “Americans” (I.e. citizens). Lots and lots of people consider then as “wastes” of resources, and worth less than “real” Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-any-american-a-waste/807450/70 "2018-01-27T14:13:01Z")
\*\*Is any American “a waste”? \*\* Some are, most aren’t. Is any citizen of \ a waste? Some are, most aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Euphrosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d9b06d/32.png) [@Euphrosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphrosyne)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-any-american-a-waste/807450/71 "2018-01-27T15:14:12Z")
> [@Skara\_Brae](#): > > There is currently a raging debate in this about about people who grew up in America, but are not “Americans” (I.e. citizens). Lots and lots of people consider then as “wastes” of resources, and worth less than “real” Americans. (Sigh) I’m sure you’re right Skara\_Brae. Most of the people in my life would not willingly spend time conversing with people who hold such views. Except, in some cases we might try to talk with them in the hope that our doing so might help them. All of us - without exception - are made in the image and likeness of our God, and are therefore most sacred. On some planets, it is said to rain diamonds. Beyond compare to a rainstorm of diamonds, is each and every man, woman, and child, of whatever condition, age, station, nationality, creed, color, tongue, occupation, capacity, legal status, or ability. This is not to say, however, that _the duties and obligations_ we have to one another cannot be compared according to our condition, age, relationship, ability, and to the age, relationship, ability, and condition of our neighbor. For example, among Christians we would say that we owe a duty of care for our fellow man and woman, in general, but we owe first a special duty of care to our own aged, infirm parents or grandparents, and to our own young children . . . so much so, that if, for a time, our aged relatives and our young children were to receive virtually all our limited time and resources, we would be doing well in that case. This is not to say that our own relatives are “worth more” than those of our next-door neighbor. It’s just that we have a special obligation to allocate our time and resources first to our aged parents and to our young children, to see to their needs first, and then to the needs of our neighbor’s parents and children. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-any-american-a-waste/807450/72 "2018-01-27T16:24:24Z")
> [@Euphrosyne](#): > > All of us - without exception - are made in the image and likeness of our God, and are therefore most sacred. On some planets, it is said to rain diamonds. Beyond compare to a rainstorm of diamonds, is each and every man, woman, and child, of whatever condition, age, station, nationality, creed, color, tongue, occupation, capacity, legal status, or ability. What about a chocolate rain? Or a shower of gold? ---
**Author:** ![Euphrosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d9b06d/32.png) [@Euphrosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphrosyne)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-any-american-a-waste/807450/73 "2018-01-27T17:15:04Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > What about a chocolate rain? Or a shower of gold? What about giant gas? Or better yet, _gas giants_? [http://www.google.com/search?safe=active&source=h\*p&ei=hLJsWvmpLYuczwLDoYjoBw&q=gas+giant+diamonds&oq=gas+giant+diamonds&gs\_l=psy-ab.3...252.6628.0.6825.19.16.0.2.2.0.432.2617.0j13j1j1j1.16.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..1.17.2555.0..0j35i39k1j0i131k1j0i20i264k1j0i131i20i264k1j0i22i30k1.0.sg00kz\_ykic](http://www.google.com/search?safe=active&source=h*p&ei=hLJsWvmpLYuczwLDoYjoBw&q=gas+giant+diamonds&oq=gas+giant+diamonds&gs_l=psy-ab.3...252.6628.0.6825.19.16.0.2.2.0.432.2617.0j13j1j1j1.16.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..1.17.2555.0..0j35i39k1j0i131k1j0i20i264k1j0i131i20i264k1j0i22i30k1.0.sg00kz_ykic) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-any-american-a-waste/807450/74 "2018-01-27T17:30:21Z")
“It is said” is a junk statement of no worth whatsoever unless you identify who “they” are and in what context they said it. ---
**Author:** ![Euphrosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d9b06d/32.png) [@Euphrosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphrosyne)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-any-american-a-waste/807450/75 "2018-01-27T18:13:00Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > “It is said” is a junk statement of no worth whatsoever unless you identify who “they” are and in what context they said it. Well, many people would agree with you there, Czarcasm. I agree that the phrase is sometimes used carelessly. If you’ll check the link I provided to Darren Garrison (above), you’ll see that “it is said,” in this case, is a phrase used to indicate that the people saying _it_ are very knowledgeable and accomplished in the field which studies the subject around whatever _it_ is, and, while there isn’t yet hard proof of _it_, these people feel there’s strong reason to hypothesize _it_. In this case, the people are astrophysicists, the field is astrophysics, and _it_ is the precipitation of crystallized carbon (diamonds) on other planets. And I promise that, whenever in the future I should use the phrase, _it is said_, you may rely on the substratum, I just described supporting it. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-any-american-a-waste/807450/76 "2018-01-27T18:38:16Z")
> [@Euphrosyne](#): > > Don’t all human persons possess unique gifts, talents, and energy? > > May it not be said that the Creator referred to in the Declaration of Independence, put each of us here for a reason? > > Although some people may seem to be misusing their gifts, and not contributing to the overall good; are there truly Americans whose gifts, talents, and energy that the country can afford to let go to waste, or worse, deny exist? > > Can people from different positions, backgrounds, parties, perspectives hold productive conversations? > > Is it possible for Americans of different political / cultural persuasions to read others’ comments, paying careful attention to the substance of others’ comments, considering thoughtfully what others are saying? > > Can Americans think about what they’ve read before formulating an answer to those whose opinions differ from their own? > > Can they refrain from imagining what the other person’s motives or character might be, but focus, instead, on the substance, all while being considerate and courteous? > > Are these hopelessly impossible aspirations? > > (I’m especially interested in the meta, the underlying subtext, the underlying assumptions and attitudes operating in these conversation.) Poppycock. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-any-american-a-waste/807450/77 "2018-01-27T18:39:35Z")
You misunderstand–I wasn’t questioning the existence of diamond rain–I was asking about the relative worth of chocolate rain and showers of gold in relation to “each and every man, woman, and child, of whatever condition, age, station, nationality, creed, color, tongue, occupation, capacity, legal status, or ability.” ---
**Author:** ![Euphrosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d9b06d/32.png) [@Euphrosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphrosyne)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-any-american-a-waste/807450/78 "2018-01-27T18:50:49Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Poppycock. OK. Fair enough, Sam. Thanks for weighing in. Hope to hear from you again soon. ---
**Author:** ![Euphrosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d9b06d/32.png) [@Euphrosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphrosyne)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-any-american-a-waste/807450/79 "2018-01-27T18:56:51Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > You misunderstand–I wasn’t questioning the existence of diamond rain–I was asking about the relative worth of chocolate rain and showers of gold in relation to “each and every man, woman, and child, of whatever condition, age, station, nationality, creed, color, tongue, occupation, capacity, legal status, or ability.” I’m sorry, I have no useful information about the entities you refer to, in relation to the value of a human person. I’d be interested in any further academic or scientific research, especially with links, you may wish to provide. Thanks so much for your replies. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-any-american-a-waste/807450/80 "2018-01-27T19:15:13Z")
> [@Euphrosyne](#): > > I’m sorry, I have no useful information about the entities you refer to, in relation to the value of a human person. > > I’d be interested in any further academic or scientific research, especially with links, you may wish to provide. Sure. [Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwTZ2xpQwpA) is a brief documentary on chocolate rain. I will allow discretion to be the better part of valor and limit my documentation of showers of gold to [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dana%C3%AB) one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-any-american-a-waste/807450.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-any-american-a-waste/807450.md?page=5)