# Is ANYONE at all hopeful about the economy? Should anyone be? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 30, 2010, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-at-all-hopeful-about-the-economy-should-anyone-be/552055 "2010-08-30T22:57:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![InterestedObserver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@InterestedObserver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InterestedObserver)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-at-all-hopeful-about-the-economy-should-anyone-be/552055/41 "2010-09-01T03:56:13Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The bankers are raking in huge bonuses and salaries after being responsible for the mess . They are back to wild speculation . Nobody stepped on them. Instead we gave them a ton of money and have not installed regulation to stop them. For many of us things have changed forever. For the bankers it is theft as usual. One reason I only do business with credit unions (and the US Dept. of Education, which owns my student loans). But it should be pointed out that at least revisions were made (after Obama took office) to the Bush/Republican bail-out which required some government oversight of and repayment by the institutions receiving taxpayer funds. Otherwise, would have just been another S&L situation. A grand theft and redistribution of wealth from the taxpayer to the already rich criminals. As it stands, most of the money has already been paid back. Yes, still some potential losses involved, but not the “sinkhole some feared”, to quote the LA Times. And absolutely, a crack down overall is needed (the recent financial reform legislation did quite a lot but not enough.) ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-at-all-hopeful-about-the-economy-should-anyone-be/552055/42 "2010-09-01T04:00:21Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > > [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > > > First of all, shut up. Second of all, the stimulus wasn’t used to bail out local governments, as widespread state government deficits are one of the prime drags on our economy. > > Mods, arrest that man!:eek: > > > > I am not hopeful for the economy, as I don’t believe the housing market has reached its bottom yet. > > First of all, shut up. Second of all, the stimulus wasn’t used to bail out local governments, as widespread state government deficits are one of the prime drags on our economy. Well, I don’t know about that. We have signs posted all over town proclaiming that [ARRA funding](http://www.recovery.gov/Pages/home.aspx) is paying for resurfacing of this road, doing that public works project, etc. It’s all being managed by local government. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-at-all-hopeful-about-the-economy-should-anyone-be/552055/43 "2010-09-01T04:04:37Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > > [@ralph124c](#): > > > > First of all, shut up. Second of all, the stimulus wasn’t used to bail out local governments, as widespread state government deficits are one of the prime drags on our economy. > > Well, I don’t know about that. We have signs posted all over town proclaiming that [ARRA funding](http://www.recovery.gov/Pages/home.aspx) is paying for resurfacing of this road, doing that public works project, etc. It’s all being managed by local government. That’s a construction project. That has nothing to do with “bailing out state governments to keep unionized workers in their jobs.” ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-at-all-hopeful-about-the-economy-should-anyone-be/552055/44 "2010-09-01T04:57:17Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > That’s a construction project. That has nothing to do with “bailing out state governments to keep unionized workers in their jobs.” Well, **ralph124c** said: > [@](#): > > Second of all, the stimulus wasn’t used to bail out local governments, I kinda take it at face value that “local government” refers to my city/town, while a state government is two steps up (local/county/state/federal). But hey, I’ve been known to be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-at-all-hopeful-about-the-economy-should-anyone-be/552055/45 "2010-09-01T14:02:56Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > Big money is already siding with one party to drive out the current president (as they are currently withholding their dollars and jobs so as to blame Obama for everything) Yes, companies are withholding jobs so they can force Obama out. That makes sense.:rolleyes: I have not been convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that what Obama is doing is actually helping to solve the problem. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-at-all-hopeful-about-the-economy-should-anyone-be/552055/46 "2010-09-01T14:11:32Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > > [@Duckster](#): > > > > Well, I don’t know about that. We have signs posted all over town proclaiming that [ARRA funding](http://www.recovery.gov/Pages/home.aspx) is paying for resurfacing of this road, doing that public works project, etc. It’s all being managed by local government. > > That’s a construction project. That has nothing to do with “bailing out state governments to keep unionized workers in their jobs.” Are you suggesting Drudge might not be accurate? How could that be? He is a righty and after years of getting the economy wrong, his site is suddenly the voice of experts. Perhaps another tax cut for the wealthy will fix everything? ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-at-all-hopeful-about-the-economy-should-anyone-be/552055/47 "2010-09-01T14:31:13Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > > > I pretty much agree with this. People keep talking about economic recovery like all the poison has been flushed and all the world has to do now is get better; my understanding is that [there’s still another crisis to get through.](http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/13229/52/) And after _that_, there’s all the fall-out from the political mis-management to deal with. I think “fundamental fracturing” is a good term for what’s happening and what’s to come. > > That is just part of it. There is also the coming Option-ARM collapse > > [http://reasonablythinking.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/monthlymortgagerateresets.jpg?w=402&h=369](http://reasonablythinking.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/monthlymortgagerateresets.jpg?w=402&h=369) > > The coming collapse of residential real estate and mid-size banking > > [Elizabeth Warren Warns About Commercial Real Estate Crisis, 'Downward Spiral' For Small Businesses, Local Banks | HuffPost Impact](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/11/commercial-real-estate-wa_n_458092.html) > > And on top of that, the coming issues with peak oil, other potential natural resource shortages and a health care system that has priced itself out of the market (at least in the US). > > Plus within 5-10 years I’m sure the long term unemployment and trillion dollar deficits will start showing how unsustainable they really are. There are still a ton of bad mortgages to go pop but this will be ameliorated somewhat by low interest rates. When they reset the reset won’t be as big as it would have been if the meltdown hadn’t have happened. There’s also the commercial real estate bubble to contend with too. In reply to the OP in general we’ve got a situation where we’ve bailed the bankksters out at the expense of repairing the financial system, we have no domestic constituency for further fiscal or monetary stimulus and we have a tapped out population who are now for a variety of reasons thinking about saving rather than spending/borrowing, a financial system not keen on lending and we’re up against zero interest rates. I’d say we’re nailed on for a Japanese-style lost decade or two except that due to the unfortunate timing of the meltdown, with the Democrats – the only party who have the ability to fix the problem – left to take the blame for the meltdown we have a serious chance of President Palin or some other cretin making things so bad that a lost decade or two looks like a good result. I’m not optimistic about the prospects for the US economy over the next few years, that’s for sure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-at-all-hopeful-about-the-economy-should-anyone-be/552055.md?page=2)