# Is anyone else here in my situation? (Jewish lineage) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 10, 2003, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-else-here-in-my-situation-jewish-lineage/194180 "2003-08-10T09:23:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DAbr393032\_aol.com](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3e96dc/32.png) [@DAbr393032\_aol.com](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DAbr393032_aol.com)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-else-here-in-my-situation-jewish-lineage/194180/21 "2003-08-11T21:52:45Z")
It is obvious some people reading your post are living in the dark ages scientifically. Their disdain for “genetic heritage” etc may be true for them. But if you run a title search on, say, the New York Times, you will find what scientisits now know. The descendents of Aaron, the Kohaym, have a genetic marker that no one else on earth has. And it follows the Biblical Laws of Descent. A son born to a Jewish mother married to a Kohaym has the genetic marker. A son born to a Kohayn married to a non-Jewish woman does not have the genetic marker. Welcome to reality! ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-else-here-in-my-situation-jewish-lineage/194180/22 "2003-08-11T22:00:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by [DAbr393032@aol.com](mailto:DAbr393032@aol.com) \* > \*\* Only recognized Orthodox Jewish scholars can address any issue about Judaism. No one would ask a Lutheran a serious question about Catholicism, LOL. \*\* Unless the Lutheran was a scholar of Catholicism. And you know, there ARE other forms of Judaism than Orthodox Judaism. The Orthodox aren’t the sole inheritors of the faith and covenant, no matter that some of them may think they are. So, what’s a “half Jew”? You can only have a light snack on Yom Kippur? If your mother is Jewish, you’re a full fledged Jew, not just half of one. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-else-here-in-my-situation-jewish-lineage/194180/23 "2003-08-11T22:27:09Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by [DAbr393032@aol.com](mailto:DAbr393032@aol.com)_ > In regards to this matter gentiles have no standing. Their opinions count for nothing. If anyone was looking for an actual example of racism, ta da, we found one! Anyway, this isn’t a Rabbinical School, it’s the Straight Dope Message Board, and everybody’s opinion has equal standing regardless of their religion. :wally ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-else-here-in-my-situation-jewish-lineage/194180/24 "2003-08-11T22:27:57Z")
> [@](#): > > I think that it is a travesty that so many people ignore their heritage, but I can only worry about myself in this regard. Heritage–IMHO–isn’t about blood. My grandmother’s grandfather was Irish-Scottish, but I do not have Irish-Scottish heritage. I have Irish-Scottish ancestry. I do not deny the existence of my minuscule Celtic blood, but I don’t feel any special kinship to Irish-Scottish people. And I don’t feel like this is a travesty because my heritage isn’t about blood quanta. It’s much deeper than that. You feel a bond with Jewish people, which is great. But please consider the possibility that this bond has more to do with having a interest in Jewishness (which a lot of people have) rather than a special “genetic” obligation or connection to your ancestors. You may be technically Jewish, but the amount of significance you attach to this label is totally left up to you. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-else-here-in-my-situation-jewish-lineage/194180/25 "2003-08-11T22:49:39Z")
**Joe K,** I find it difficult to believe that exploring your interest in Jewish history and your family heritage can be a bad thing. I strongly encourage you to check out the 800-pound gorilla of Jewish genealogy sites, [www.jewishgen.org](http://www.jewishgen.org). I subscribe to several listserves there, and have learned an immense amount from those on the site more experienced than I. And inquiries from people such as yourself who have recently discovered some Jewish heritage are a frequent occurrence. Read some of the FAQs and such there; it should be a good starting point for you. And good luck. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-else-here-in-my-situation-jewish-lineage/194180/26 "2003-08-11T22:52:37Z")
> [@](#): > > But if you run a title search on, say, the New York Times, you will find what scientisits now know. The descendents of Aaron, the Kohaym, have a genetic marker that no one else on earth has. And it follows the Biblical Laws of Descent. A son born to a Jewish mother married to a Kohaym has the genetic marker. A son born to a Kohayn married to a non-Jewish woman does not have the genetic marker. Welcome to reality! Sorry to burst your reality bubble, but the genetic marker is disportionately found in Jewish peoples, but it is not exclusive to them. Also, the marker is passed on the y-chromosome, which only men can pass along (it doesn’t follow the laws of descent, in other words). So if your Jewish father likes to romp with the shiksas, the resulting males offspring will have the Jewish marker. But don’t worry. They won’t be Jewish. > **[The Cohanim - DNA Connection](https://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48936742.html)** > > The fascinating story of how DNA studies confirm an ancient biblical tradition. Unless **Joe K’s** father is Jewish, he wouldn’t have this marker. It shouldn’t mean squat though. “Genetic” Jews are no less special than converted Jews. ---
**Author:** ![I\_can\_t\_believe\_that\_s\_butter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@I\_can\_t\_believe\_that\_s\_butter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_can_t_believe_that_s_butter)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-else-here-in-my-situation-jewish-lineage/194180/27 "2003-08-12T00:53:52Z")
Well, I can’t thank everyone enough for the encouragement and insight. I realize that my interest in Judaism may indeed weigh on the scale more in certain cases than my actual soul/genetic relation, although I feel that such hard-to-prove relation exists nonetheless. Also, I don’t feel any obligations anymore; rather, I feel welcomed in my turning of a new leaf. While I still ponder and research my roots and my faith in general, I can easily say that my heart and soul are a great deal lighter thanks to the help that the people in both threads have provided. You all are good people; thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-else-here-in-my-situation-jewish-lineage/194180/28 "2003-08-12T01:31:19Z")
I’d encourage you to continue with your research, and possibly speak to a rabbi on the matter. You might like what you find, you might not. In any case, bravo for trying to learn more about yourself and your heritage. ---
**Author:** ![stick\_monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@stick\_monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stick_monkey)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-else-here-in-my-situation-jewish-lineage/194180/29 "2003-08-12T13:14:23Z")
I agree with Johnny Bravo on the subject. About the best thing (i think) for you to do right now is see a rabbi and have a discussion about your beliefs and those of the Jewish faith. Do not be disappointed though if he/she discourages you from converting to the faith (if he/she or you feels that is something necessary). It is normal, and IMHO a good thing, for him/her to do so. ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-else-here-in-my-situation-jewish-lineage/194180/30 "2003-08-12T13:17:35Z")
It’s healtghy and normal to want to know about your past and ancestory, but by the same token, just because you have a Jewish great-grandmother doesn’t seem like a great reason to suddenly convert to Judaism. ---
**Author:** ![annaplurabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@annaplurabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annaplurabelle)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-else-here-in-my-situation-jewish-lineage/194180/31 "2003-08-12T13:52:32Z")
**Joe K** : Here’s an [autobiographical article](http://www.hackwriters.com/zion2.htm) on the net that seems related to your situation: > [@](#): > > **NOTHING CAN ERASE 6,000 YEARS: > THE STORY OF MY NEWLY DISCOVERED JEWISH HERITAGE** > by Most Reverend Eryk-Antonio Hernández, O.M.D., U.B. > Founding monk of the Uniphysite Buddhist Order. > > **[re your predilection to things Jewish]** > > “Why we fit in so well with all kinds of Jews, why we were always so at home with the varying Jewish customs and cultures, why we were so like them, never seemed to really pique our curiosity.” > > **[re possible rabbinical discouragement]** > > “We discussed conversion in his office one day. What hurt me the most- and I know, he didn’t mean it - was his insistence upon the conversion ritual in the first place. I told him I already was a Jew; I was looking forward to fully joining the community. His reasoning was sound: a conversion has to be seen to be believed. The bath, the mikveh, must be performed. I then repeated, I had something of a problem with the very idea that I had to “convert”. He was telling me I was not Jewish until they said otherwise.” > > “It is Jewish custom, as it is the Buddhist, to torture (they call it “testing”) a candidate… a proselyte… three times, prior to commencing the actual conversion process.” ---
**Author:** ![TVAA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c57346/32.png) [@TVAA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVAA)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-else-here-in-my-situation-jewish-lineage/194180/32 "2003-08-12T14:13:39Z")
Oh, boy. This guy suggests that he felt an urge to rend his clothing (without such an action being part of the traditions or social environment he grew up in) _because he had Jewish ancestry_? He’s got it worse than **Joe K**. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-else-here-in-my-situation-jewish-lineage/194180/33 "2003-08-12T14:47:10Z")
Well I hear that the genome project has isolated the motza ball gene. My mother’s side of the family is covert jewish. IOW the converted when they came to Canada to avoid hassles. I find it interesting and perhaps useful if I want to immigrate to Israel. Otherwise I don’t think it has much significance. Sometimes it’s all too easy to fall into the stereotype game when you are talking about yourself as you are not directly insulting anyone. Is it racist: to believe Jewish ancestory is why I’m good with numbers? Or to write off my mother’s guilt trips and nagging as “jewish mother syndrome”? Or that I like to follow the ME situation? > [@](#): > > But, I don’t consider myself very worthy of being a Jew, however ignorant I was when engaging in past behaviors, and I’m sure I couldn’t just be accepted tomorrow as such. Not worthy of being a Jew? What the hell does that mean? You think they’re the chosen people or something? 😉 BTW, did you say whether it was your maternal or paternal great-grandma? As mentioned the rules are that it follows the mother’s line. ---
**Author:** ![annaplurabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@annaplurabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annaplurabelle)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-else-here-in-my-situation-jewish-lineage/194180/34 "2003-08-12T15:34:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CarnalK \* > \*\*Well I hear that the genome project has isolated the motza ball gene. > > My mother’s side of the family is covert jewish. IOW the converted when they came to Canada to avoid hassles. I find it interesting and perhaps useful if I want to immigrate to Israel. Otherwise I don’t think it has much significance. > > Sometimes it’s all too easy to fall into the stereotype game when you are talking about yourself as you are not directly insulting anyone. > > Is it racist: to believe Jewish ancestory is why I’m good with numbers? Or to write off my mother’s guilt trips and nagging as “jewish mother syndrome”? Or that I like to follow the ME situation?\*\* According to [The Personality Project](http://pmc.psych.nwu.edu/perproj/readings-theory.html): > [@](#): > > Some of the most interesting results of the past decade have been the demonstrations of the moderate to strong heritability of personality and ability. > > Using techniques of quantititative behavior genetics, it has become commonplace to show that roughly 40-60% of the variation in most personality traits have a genetic base. The most exciting and counter-intuitive findings have been that the shared environment is much less important than previously thought but that the unique environment is very important. Various articles on evolutionary psychology and behaviour genetics: [(click)](http://www.mve.nhfi.de/search.php3) ---
**Author:** ![TVAA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c57346/32.png) [@TVAA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVAA)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-else-here-in-my-situation-jewish-lineage/194180/35 "2003-08-12T16:06:40Z")
That’s personality traits, **annaplurabelle** , not specific cultural practices and traditions. There’s a non-trivial difference. ---
**Author:** ![annaplurabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@annaplurabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annaplurabelle)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-else-here-in-my-situation-jewish-lineage/194180/36 "2003-08-12T16:45:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TVAA \* > \*\*That’s personality traits, **annaplurabelle** , not specific cultural practices and traditions. > > There’s a non-trivial difference. \*\* Personality and _ability_. Anyway, it was in reference to this question: **"Is it racist: to believe Jewish ancestory is why I’m good with numbers? Or to write off my mother’s guilt trips and nagging as “jewish mother syndrome”?"** Math is an ability, and nagging is a personality trait. I never said anything about specific _cultural_ practices/traditions. Obviously, math ability and/or nagging mothers are not exclusive to Jewish culture. However, when people _want_ to find a basis of similarity, they tend to highlight the personality traits that denote compatability (similar to what we do when we fall in love and seek to rationalise why). My point was that it is neither implausable, silly, nor racist to contemplate the heritable components of behaviour. Reading too much into it would be incorrect, but not necessarily ill intentioned (no trivial difference there, either). ---
**Author:** ![TVAA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c57346/32.png) [@TVAA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVAA)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-else-here-in-my-situation-jewish-lineage/194180/37 "2003-08-12T16:53:28Z")
Nagging is not a personality trait, at least in the sense that psychologists use the term. Nagging is a specific behavior that is one of the many different possible manifestations of maternal concern, which may be considered a personality trait. ---
**Author:** ![annaplurabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@annaplurabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annaplurabelle)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-else-here-in-my-situation-jewish-lineage/194180/38 "2003-08-12T18:00:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TVAA \* > \*\*Nagging is not a personality trait, at least in the sense that psychologists use the term. > > Nagging is a specific behavior that is one of the many different possible manifestations of maternal concern, which may be considered a personality trait. \*\* If you want to nit-pick, what _is_ considered a personality trait is still a debatable subject in behavioural psychology. The International Personality Item Pool (IPIP) lists 1,956 itemised psychometric characteristics. This is a broad-bandwidth inventory, applicable to multiple indice constructs (although maternal concern is _not_ listed :)). Here’s the list: [IPIP](http://ipip.ori.org/ipip/index.htm) Corresponding index of 172 Labels for 280 IPIP scale constructs: [Sample Constructs](http://ipip.ori.org/ipip/new_home.htm) If anyone would like to be assessed online: [click here.](http://cac.psu.edu/%7Ej5j/test/ipipneo1.htm) ---
**Author:** ![I\_can\_t\_believe\_that\_s\_butter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@I\_can\_t\_believe\_that\_s\_butter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_can_t_believe_that_s_butter)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-else-here-in-my-situation-jewish-lineage/194180/39 "2003-08-12T21:58:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MC Master of Ceremonies \* > \*\*It’s healtghy and normal to want to know about your past and ancestory, but by the same token, just because you have a Jewish great-grandmother doesn’t seem like a great reason to suddenly convert to Judaism. \*\* This is how I feel. I recognize myself as a secular Jew, not an observant one. This may change in the future; it may not. **CarnalK** —My maternal great-grandmother. I learned the other day that she even lived with my mother (and her parents; her daughter and son-in-law) for a time. That is an excellent article, of what little I read of it yet. I will read it all tonight (my preferred reading time). Thanks. Thanks, all. ---
**Author:** ![DAbr393032\_aol.com](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3e96dc/32.png) [@DAbr393032\_aol.com](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DAbr393032_aol.com)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-else-here-in-my-situation-jewish-lineage/194180/40 "2003-08-13T01:30:32Z")
“roughly 40-60% of the variation in most personality traits have a genetic base” LOL 40 to 60 percent means 50-50 – which means nothing scientifically – it means you flip a coin – they need to learn a whole lot more – a whole lot more, and shucks, when the New York Times story about the specific genetic marker that “ONLY” the Kohaym have, not the rest of or the Jewish people in general – I spent lots of time tracking down the geneticists who did the research – you must be responging to some other genetic trait or maybe you are simply confused ; the concept of race comes from anthropology which derived it from the study of linguistics – and tribal descent comes only from the father – how silly can you be – you must learn to formally present an argument and define terms for any meaningful exchange of information – I understand I hit a nerve for people whose mother married outside of Jewish Law – Jews are free to make that choice – but it is silly to ask others to accept their choices as valid when the Revealation says NO. Don’t whine and say ‘you must change your rules for me.’ Go start your own religion – thats what people have been doing for thousands of years – don’t try to force yours on me – LOL [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-else-here-in-my-situation-jewish-lineage/194180.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-else-here-in-my-situation-jewish-lineage/194180.md?page=3)