# Is anyone planning to get completely out of the stock market before Oct 17? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 9, 2013, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-planning-to-get-completely-out-of-the-stock-market-before-oct-17/670785 "2013-10-09T16:49:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-planning-to-get-completely-out-of-the-stock-market-before-oct-17/670785/21 "2013-10-09T20:40:12Z")
I’m not arguing with any of that. I’m a financial advisor and understand how rates work. It was the ridiculous statement about how low interest rates are screwing the middle class (who invest less than the upper class) and how it’s all the fault of Republicans that I found suspect. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-planning-to-get-completely-out-of-the-stock-market-before-oct-17/670785/22 "2013-10-09T20:46:49Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > If you’d left it alone, you would be up more. Most people who stayed in the market and lost “25-50%” of their retirement fund only lost it on paper, for a short period of time. This. If you’ve bought stock in fundamentally sound companies, they may lose value as the entire market decreases, but when the market rebounds, they’ll rebound right along with it, and you’ll be back where you started, if you just ride it out. In other words, political shenanigans don’t have much to do with whether or not say… GE is a profitable company over the long haul. (I picked GE out of thin air; the example works for Exxon or other perennial blue chip stocks) ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-planning-to-get-completely-out-of-the-stock-market-before-oct-17/670785/23 "2013-10-09T20:47:49Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > I’m just pointing that at present the only way for middle class earners like myself to earn a decent rate of return on our investments, or at least one that beats inflation, is by going with the market long term. Anything other than the long term is pretty stupid anyway, ESPECIALLY for middle class earners. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-planning-to-get-completely-out-of-the-stock-market-before-oct-17/670785/24 "2013-10-09T20:50:32Z")
Not intentionally. However, I carry trailing stops on most securities that I have any significant position in (if you’re not familiar with them, they’re a way to reduce–not eliminate, unfortunately–downside risk while leaving upside unbounded), and quite a few of those triggers have executed in the last week or so. My guess is that things will keep going down for a bit, so I’m currently holding that money rather than re-investing it, but that’s temporary. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-planning-to-get-completely-out-of-the-stock-market-before-oct-17/670785/25 "2013-10-09T20:58:40Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > I’m not arguing with any of that. I’m a financial advisor and understand how rates work. > > It was the ridiculous statement about how low interest rates are screwing the middle class (who invest less than the upper class) and how it’s all the fault of Republicans that I found suspect. If you are a financial advisor then I’m sure you know low interest rates are a problem for the middle class. The traditional pension system has been replaced largely with 401ks. So the middle class now has to put their money somewhere. T-bills, CD’s and bank savings accounts are safe but they pay almost nothing making it hard to keep up with inflation. So the middle class has to put their money into the market or risk not having enough to retire on. Thus risk has been shifted onto our heads while certain companies are deemed too big to fail. The Dems are not innocent here but the Reps are far worse. The whole situation can be good in the sense that the market often pays far more and has a lower tax rate but it means making financial decisions that are not always easy for many of us. It also means trying to make sure we’re not screwed over in outrageous fees from many mainstream but unscrupulous financial advisors. This [Frontline documentary delved into the problem quite accurately.](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/business-economy-financial-crisis/retirement-gamble/the-retirement-gamble-facing-us-all/) ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-planning-to-get-completely-out-of-the-stock-market-before-oct-17/670785/26 "2013-10-09T21:01:46Z")
The middle class is also borrowing money at record lows. You’re only arguing one side of the coin. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-planning-to-get-completely-out-of-the-stock-market-before-oct-17/670785/27 "2013-10-09T21:02:43Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Anything other than the long term is pretty stupid anyway, ESPECIALLY for middle class earners. Unfortunately, people don’t always realize this fact. If I were in charge of the universe, an education in equities and long term financial management would be a requirement for graduating from high school. I’m still trying to convince a dear friend and a lawyer to aim for the stock market long term rather than one year CD’s. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-planning-to-get-completely-out-of-the-stock-market-before-oct-17/670785/28 "2013-10-09T21:05:03Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > The middle class is also borrowing money at record lows. You’re only arguing one side of the coin. And that’s not always a good thing as I’m sure you know. In many areas of the country people might have been better off renting. A used car is often a better financial bet than a new one. Bad credit ratings as a result of debt can cripple your chances of advancement at work and even getting hired in the first place in some cases. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-planning-to-get-completely-out-of-the-stock-market-before-oct-17/670785/29 "2013-10-09T21:08:38Z")
Since we’re retired, the bulk of our money is in extremely low risk instruments. We have about $60K in stocks at the moment, but they’re conservative and pretty solid. I’m going to let it ride, as any losses will eventually be recovered. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-planning-to-get-completely-out-of-the-stock-market-before-oct-17/670785/30 "2013-10-09T21:09:21Z")
Yes, and high rates can cause a rent increase. The point is, it’s very difficult to say that low rates are good or bad for the middle class. The are obviously pros and cons to both low and high rates. ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-planning-to-get-completely-out-of-the-stock-market-before-oct-17/670785/31 "2013-10-09T21:38:46Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Wow, what a stupid thing to say. […] Look, I see you’ve been able to keep the discussion going without this escalating, so this is just a note - but the above is too harsh for IMHO. Please, let’s keep this place civil. - Gukumatz, IMHO Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-planning-to-get-completely-out-of-the-stock-market-before-oct-17/670785/32 "2013-10-09T21:47:30Z")
I plan to invest in canned goods and firearms. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-planning-to-get-completely-out-of-the-stock-market-before-oct-17/670785/33 "2013-10-09T22:30:42Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I plan to invest in canned goods and firearms. I plan to invest in canned goods and firearms companies. _Ex-cellent_. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-planning-to-get-completely-out-of-the-stock-market-before-oct-17/670785/34 "2013-10-09T22:33:37Z")
I routinely run into crazy people who think they’re “investing” by buying cartloads of low priced shit they’ll never use from Wal-Mart. I nearly got run out of the site when I told them that was hoarding not investing. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-planning-to-get-completely-out-of-the-stock-market-before-oct-17/670785/35 "2013-10-10T13:48:03Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > I routinely run into crazy people who think they’re “investing” by buying cartloads of low priced shit they’ll never use from Wal-Mart. I nearly got run out of the site when I told them that was hoarding not investing. People don’t understand what an investment really is. You hear this kind of thing all the time when they talk about their “investment” in their car or computer or whatever other thing they’ve poured a bunch of money in. It’s only an investment if you expect to earn a return on it. Otherwise it’s what amounts to plant, property and equipment at your house, and ultimately ends up as an expense in some fashion. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-planning-to-get-completely-out-of-the-stock-market-before-oct-17/670785/36 "2013-10-10T14:41:07Z")
> [@bump](#): > > People don’t understand what an investment really is. You hear this kind of thing all the time when they talk about their “investment” in their car or computer or whatever other thing they’ve poured a bunch of money in. > > It’s only an investment if you expect to earn a return on it. Otherwise it’s what amounts to plant, property and equipment at your house, and ultimately ends up as an expense in some fashion. Formally known as a depreciating asset. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-planning-to-get-completely-out-of-the-stock-market-before-oct-17/670785/37 "2013-10-10T15:16:12Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Formally known as a depreciating asset. Well yeah, but I was trying to stay out of financial terminology as much as I could! ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-planning-to-get-completely-out-of-the-stock-market-before-oct-17/670785/38 "2013-10-10T17:47:47Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > I moved my 401K into safer investments starting Monday and have already avoided a downturn. Did it in July of 2008 as well and don’t regret not losing 25-50% of my retirement fund like a lot of my co-workers did. Still lost, but only about 2% which to me is a wash when compared to how bad it could have been. Well, I hope you jumped back in today since the market is back where it started on Monday before the dip. If congress cuts a deal soon I wouldn’t count on that downturn to happen. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2013, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-planning-to-get-completely-out-of-the-stock-market-before-oct-17/670785/39 "2013-10-13T14:36:40Z")
If anyone wants good success timing the markets, just watch me and do the opposite. I’d intended to reduce equity position for a long while but had been procrastinating [del]due to apathy[/del] [del]because I was wasting all my spare time on message boards[/del] preferring to just “smell the roses” instead. The crisis finally prodded me to act on 9 October, selling some stocks and buying a “hard currency hedge.” October 10-11 was the best stock upsurge in quite a while. :smack: The only consolation is that, knowing my timing is dreadful, my Wednesday move wasn’t too big. Now I don’t know whether to hope next week brings back the halcyon days of bipartisan cooperation and political sanity. … Or to hope Boehner and company drive the market back below the June bottom so I don’t feel so bad. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2013, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-planning-to-get-completely-out-of-the-stock-market-before-oct-17/670785/40 "2013-10-13T15:41:07Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Calm down. > > :dubious: > > I’m just pointing that at present the only way for middle class earners like myself to earn a decent rate of return on our investments, or at least one that beats inflation, is by going with the market long term. I keep about 30k in emergency money in bank account with TD Bank. I think it earns half a percentage point in dividend income if that. Meanwhile, we have about 600k in the market in direct savings in a TD Ameritrade account and expect about 20k plus in dividend income alone this year. It would make no sense to put our savings in T-bills or in a bank savings account. Trying not to be rude here, bit the implicit assumption is you’re entitled to money for doing nothing. Why is that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-planning-to-get-completely-out-of-the-stock-market-before-oct-17/670785.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-planning-to-get-completely-out-of-the-stock-market-before-oct-17/670785.md?page=3)