# IS anyone seriously considering voting for J. F. Kerry... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 24, 2004, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-seriously-considering-voting-for-j-f-kerry/241848 "2004-04-24T22:14:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Airblairxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Airblairxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airblairxxx)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2004, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-seriously-considering-voting-for-j-f-kerry/241848/81 "2004-04-26T22:55:35Z")
Well, according to that presidential match site, apparently I’m a **ABBALATNNKBHHNCTWIN** \*. (\*-Anybody But Bush, As Long As They’re Not Named Kucinich, Because He Has No Chance To Win In November.) So yes, I’m for Kerry, although as a Californian my vote will be pointless. I also have to say that this thread appears to contain some of the more respectful exchanges between posters with opposing political viewpoints. But maybe I’ve been hanging out too much in Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2004, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-seriously-considering-voting-for-j-f-kerry/241848/82 "2004-04-26T23:12:17Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > Well, you’re just going to have to accept it. Let’s take the pisspoor job of international relations that Bush has done. He’s managed to piss off nearly every one of our allies, and yet, they’re _still_ willing to cooperate with us on matters of great importance, like terrorism. > > The budget deficit is pretty much a non-issue. Really. Remember all the screeching that went on about the huge deficits ran up during the Reagan/Bush 1.0 years? And how the Clinton Administration was able to bring them under control in a relatively short period of time? All done _without_ the huge slash and burn tactics that the political wonks were certian would have to be employed. The same thing can (and most likely will) happen again. You’re perfectly willing to let this nation go in the red for another 4 years because you want your space program? _sigh_ > [@](#): > > AIDS is a serious issue, and I’ve lost one friend to the disease, and have one friend who is HIV+, so I’m well aware of the facts of the matter, and I **know** abstinence education won’t work to stem the tide, but neither will telling people to slap a rubber on their willy. Condoms are a hell of a lot more effective than nothing. > [@](#): > > As for stem cell research, that’s much like AIDS research in that it’s such an important endeavour that even if the US doesn’t do it, someone else will. Also, I’ve seen reports which indicate that fat cells in adults are loaded with stem cells. If true, then the whole issue of using fetal tissue is no big deal, since the stem cells could be extracted from fat cells. Let somebody else pick up the burden? Why not let some other country go into space then? What practical use does space exploration have other than to say “wow, look at us! we’re on Mars! la de fricken da!” > [@](#): > > Abortion, well, every Republican president since Roe v. Wade has tried to put the brakes on it and has failed. What makes you think that Bush will be able to put something in place that the first Democrat president elected after him (most likely in 2008 if Bush manages to snag a second term) won’t be able to reverse it? It isn’t quite that simple. _Roe vs Wade_ hangs by the barest of threads. It was upheld by a 5-4 margin back in 1992, but only because one Justice had a sudden attack of conscience and switched his vote at the last minute. There is a very likely chance that if Bush remains in office, enough Justices will either die or retire to allow him to appoint pro-life justices in their place that will overturn the decision. Bush has said that his idea of the perfect justice is Antonin Scalia, for Christs sake! ANTONIN SCALIA! > [@](#): > > Should be pretty easy, all he’d have to do is show lots of pictures of women who’ve died from back alley abortions. Sure, that will work in the majority of States, but I don’t trust Idaho, Utah, or any of the Southern States to follow anything but their religious beliefs in regards to abortion legislation. The women in those States who want a choice will be screwed. Sure, some of them could travel, but the poor ones who REALLY need an abortion will be shit out of luck. > [@](#): > > As for the “faith based” initatives (i.e. let’s give churches government money), well, the last time I checked, there hadn’t been much movement on that. Folks were still trying to figure out how to do that and not run afoul of the ACLU. Thank God they haven’t yet ( 😃 ), but they’re aching to do that. And what about Bush’s endorsement to forever ban gays from getting married? Does your conscience allow you to vote in favor of a man who wants to enshrine bigotry in the Constitution? > [@](#): > > IMHO, the benefits of spaceflight outweigh **everything else.** I’m not kidding. I could argue about how the spinoff technology from spaceflight has changed everything that an American interacts with on a daily basis, but I’m not. I’m more interested in the benefits that a renewed space program can give to **everyone** , not just Americans. Orbiting platforms could beam electricity from solar farms to Earth, cutting our dependance on fossil fuels, drugs made in microgravity could be made purer and in forms not possible on Earth, space based manufacturing will lead to cars which are lighter weight and more fuel efficient than anything that can be built on Earth, and a billion other possibilities. None of which Kerry seems to be interested in (Clark, however, _did_ make comments indicating that he’s a bit of a space nut, so had he gotten the nod, I’d have happily voted for him.). Kerry seems to be interested in pimping NASA for what it has _now_ and not pushing the envelope, and it is pushing the envelope which is what will lead to bigger and better things (it’s only when someone comes up an inexpensive method of spaceflight that the _real_ benefits of space travel will happen, that can’t come about if you’re not trying to do something like going to the Moon). None of those things require us to go to Mars! ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2004, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-seriously-considering-voting-for-j-f-kerry/241848/83 "2004-04-26T23:37:28Z")
> [@Airblairxxx](#): > > So yes, I’m for Kerry, although as a Californian my vote will be pointless. I wouldn’t take anything for granted! Seriously. Remember, the Republicans were able to rally enough support in this state to evict a sitting Democratic Governor and replace him with one of their own (not saying his ouster wasn’t warranted, just illustrating their power and drive). I learned at the Kerry Meetup in Redondo Beach last Thursday that the Republicans have gotten over 8,000 new registered Republican voters in the city of Torrance alone. This will not necessarily be a cakewalk. Your vote and your voice are very, _very_ important here! **Blalron** , I wouldn’t trouble yourself. **Tuckerfan** is a lost cause, as he is completely obsessed with the space program, even to the point of not giving a damn about the fact that a gigantic, rusty eyesore that has fallen into disuse by NASA has been deemed _hazardous waste_ and is literally poisoning the earth; it is _that_ important to him that it remains standing as a monument to his childhood dreams. He is “enraged” that it’s being torn down, and thinks you should be too. I kid you not. [[cite](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=251240)] ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-seriously-considering-voting-for-j-f-kerry/241848/84 "2004-04-27T00:06:05Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > OK I understand more, though I don’t persaonally see it as anything but a weakness. Actually, by the same token, I really respected W’s response when the mic picked him up calling a reporter an asshole. He didn’t back down, didn’t apologize, just stated that, hey, it was a private remark to the VP. Which is exactly what he should have done. So I wouldn’t be so quick to call Kerry weak for doing much the same. PS: I’m voting for Kerry only b/c Bush is an em-bare-ass-ment to the GOP. Unfortunately, the party cannot realistically nominate anyone else this year. Glad to know at least one other like me on this board (hell, in the world). PPS: To be totally Machiavellian for a moment, US parties are way too short-sighted. Sometimes it’s a good idea to give an office over for a term, e.g. if you think the economy will be turning down and believe the other party’s candidate will make bad choices which will damage their party, so you can sit it out and come back stronger next time around. Sadly, this isn’t one of those times. ::sigh:: ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-seriously-considering-voting-for-j-f-kerry/241848/85 "2004-04-27T00:17:16Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > You’re perfectly willing to let this nation go in the red for another 4 years because you want your space program? _sigh_ Yeah, 12 years of huge deficits during the Reagan/Bush era didn’t kill us then, and they won’t kill us now. > [@](#): > > Condoms are a hell of a lot more effective than nothing. Yeah, well I don’t see the Bushitas proposing that we outlaw them any time soon. > [@](#): > > Let somebody else pick up the burden? Why not let some other country go into space then? What practical use does space exploration have other than to say “wow, look at us! we’re on Mars! la de fricken da!” What practical use does someone in Africa have for a homeless program in the US? They **do** have a practical use for the improved telecommunications which are a direct result of the space program. They do benefit from improved communications technology (thank you space program), better weather forecasting (thank you space program), and better methods of manufacturing (thank you space program) to name but a few examples. You can see more [here.](http://vesuvius.jsc.nasa.gov/er/seh/spinoff.html) Until the space program came along, there hadn’t been a massive upshift in the daily lives of folks on a global scale. Everything you see around you has benefitted from the space program. Everything. Landing men on the Moon cemented the US’s position as a global superpower. Not because it shifted the minds of folks around the world that we were better than the Soviets, but because of the _massive amounts of new technologies which were created by the space program._[The Chinese have declared that they will be going to the Moon.](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3288043.stm) Why? Because they know that [the equivalent of a single space shuttle load or roughly 25 tons of helium-3 could supply a nation’s energy needs for a year.](http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/helium3_000630.html) Despite what our politicians and industry leaders seem to think, the Chinese are **not** stupid. If they get to the Moon, they’ll not be so foolish as to muck about there for a bit and then leave. That means China will gain a technological edge on the US. Hey, if you think Bush’s human rights record is piss poor, it ain’t _nothing_ compared to the Chinese! By all means, turn the world over to them. > [@](#): > > It isn’t quite that simple. _Roe vs Wade_ hangs by the barest of threads. It was upheld by a 5-4 margin back in 1992, but only because one Justice had a sudden attack of conscience and switched his vote at the last minute. There is a very likely chance that if Bush remains in office, enough Justices will either die or retire to allow him to appoint pro-life justices in their place that will overturn the decision. > > Bush has said that his idea of the perfect justice is Antonin Scalia, for Christs sake! ANTONIN SCALIA! And when they get that clone-o-matic perfected and can begin spitting out carbon copies of Scalia every time a member of SCOTUS croaks or retires, I’ll be concerned. Given the _glacial_ process it takes for a new justice to get confirmed by _any_ President, the odds of Bush being able to foist another Scalia on us are pretty slim. > [@](#): > > Sure, that will work in the majority of States, but I don’t trust Idaho, Utah, or any of the Southern States to follow anything but their religious beliefs in regards to abortion legislation. The women in those States who want a choice will be screwed. Sure, some of them could travel, but the poor ones who REALLY need an abortion will be shit out of luck. Most places women are already out of luck. It’s really hazardous to be an abortion doctor right now, you think that those folks are going to go away if Kerry gets elected? Or that he’ll be able to put a stop to it? Nope. Abortion is going to remain a hot button issue for the rest of humanity’s existence. > [@](#): > > And what about Bush’s endorsement to forever ban gays from getting married? Does your conscience allow you to vote in favor of a man who wants to enshrine bigotry in the Constitution? He’ll have about as much luck with that as he has with the whole anti-flag burning amendment. Which is none at all. They’ll talk and talk, get everyone on both sides of the issue all puffed up about it, but in the end, gays will be allowed to marry. > [@](#): > > None of those things require us to go to Mars! Nothing requires us to get up in the morning, but we still do. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-seriously-considering-voting-for-j-f-kerry/241848/86 "2004-04-27T00:50:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Condoms are a hell of a lot more effective than nothing. Actually I think doing nothing is a heck more effective in AIDS prevention then doing somethign w/ condoms 😉 Anyway interesting bringing up mars, this is a issue I feel strongly about, and is a critical issue. Bush wins my vote on this one alone as I feel it is the future of humanity. If OTHO Bush did not support it and J.F.K. did I would strongly consider voting for him, with 2 major considerations, the War on Terrorism MUST be won (or deflected from us), and J.F.K. has to show NO signs of taking multiple sides on this issue, though his creadability for me is not great. ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-seriously-considering-voting-for-j-f-kerry/241848/87 "2004-04-27T02:01:12Z")
> [@Sample\_the\_Dog](#): > > Actually, by the same token, I really respected W’s response when the mic picked him up calling a reporter an asshole. He didn’t back down, didn’t apologize, just stated that, hey, it was a private remark to the VP. Which is exactly what he should have done. So I wouldn’t be so quick to call Kerry weak for doing much the same. Actually this was my ready response if the OP had actually answered my question as to why. But thanks for reading my mind and adding it. **Tuckerfan** are you interested in starting a debate on the space program. I’m ready to support you as I’ve always thought we should be putting way more resources into developing technolgies for space travel. Not enough to vote for Bush (unless he gauranteed me a seat on next trip to Freedom) but enough to help you debate it. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-seriously-considering-voting-for-j-f-kerry/241848/88 "2004-04-27T02:07:52Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > Nothing requires us to get up in the morning, but we still do. Speak for yourself, spaceboy. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-seriously-considering-voting-for-j-f-kerry/241848/89 "2004-04-27T02:08:51Z")
Wait a second here… Kerry’s initials are **JFK**? Well now, that’s… interesting! If I was American, I’d vote Bush out. (Actually I saw Dennis Kucinich on Letterman the other day, and he seemed really quite cool. Great comic timing. And I thought Howard Dean would’ve been a unique President. Oh well.) ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-seriously-considering-voting-for-j-f-kerry/241848/90 "2004-04-27T02:40:04Z")
> [@Stuffy](#): > > **Tuckerfan** are you interested in starting a debate on the space program. I’m ready to support you as I’ve always thought we should be putting way more resources into developing technolgies for space travel. Not enough to vote for Bush (unless he gauranteed me a seat on next trip to Freedom) but enough to help you debate it. Not a bad idea, but I won’t have the time until this weekend. ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-seriously-considering-voting-for-j-f-kerry/241848/91 "2004-04-27T03:32:02Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > Not a bad idea, but I won’t have the time until this weekend. Weekends good for me. If I don’t respond immediately send me a link. ---
**Author:** ![whattheheck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7c8e57/32.png) [@whattheheck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whattheheck)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-seriously-considering-voting-for-j-f-kerry/241848/92 "2004-04-27T03:47:34Z")
im not voting for him my best friends uncle was in the war with him and apparently they were coming to shore in their boats and kerry started to freak out so the uncle had to knock kerry out with his AK otherwise they all would have gotten wasted. if u look u can still see the scar on kerry’s head. anyways from what i know kerry is trying to play himself off as a big war hero and id have to say he’s a big war pussy. someone took that story to the press and the day after it was published my uncle was fired because “we dont have a need for your position anymore” the uncle was an insurance adjuster. try having an insurance company w/o an adjuster and let me know how it works out ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-seriously-considering-voting-for-j-f-kerry/241848/93 "2004-04-27T04:02:30Z")
Wow. The U.S. used AK47’s?? That’s news… I agree that we need to do more to support NASA, and we’ve neglected it for far too long. We can only say “wait 'til we’re stable” for so long. However…currently the Bush administration hasn’t shown me that they have any serious inclination to bolster the program any more than have the last two administrations. **Tuckerfan** , if you have any cites, I’d love to read them. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-seriously-considering-voting-for-j-f-kerry/241848/94 "2004-04-27T04:04:55Z")
Welcome to the Straight Dope. You may want to re-read the mission statement, though. > [@whattheheck](#): > > im not voting for him > my best friends uncle was in the war with him Your best friend’s uncle, huh ? At least it’s a variation on the old friend-of-friend. > [@](#): > > and apparently they were coming to shore in their boats and kerry started to freak out so the uncle had to knock kerry out with his AK Now, as far as I’m informed, the AK assault rifle was the weapon favoured by the Vietcong and NVA. Are you sure your best friend’s uncle was fighting _for_ the US ? Just asking, is all… > [@](#): > > someone took that story to the press and the day after it was published my uncle was fired That’s very sad. Of course, seeing as the main AK-wielding character was your best friend’s uncle at the start of this story, I fail to see why _your_ uncle losing his job is the slightest bit relevant. Unless, as I am beginning to suspect, this story of yours is made up - and pretty poorly, I might add - on the spot. ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-seriously-considering-voting-for-j-f-kerry/241848/95 "2004-04-27T04:06:26Z")
Good eye, **Maureen**! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-seriously-considering-voting-for-j-f-kerry/241848/96 "2004-04-27T04:06:29Z")
Moving this to Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-seriously-considering-voting-for-j-f-kerry/241848/97 "2004-04-27T04:13:20Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > Wow. The U.S. used AK47’s?? That’s news… US forces in Vietnam _unofficially_ used the AK quite a bit. The M-16 series was plagued by early problems (Which even when cleared, was still not really trusted by many of the ‘early adopters’). The M14 was considered bulky and ill-suited to jungle warfare. AKs were prized for their reliability, and were often carried by ‘special’ units. Unofficially, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-seriously-considering-voting-for-j-f-kerry/241848/98 "2004-04-27T04:19:31Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > US forces in Vietnam _unofficially_ used the AK quite a bit. The M-16 series was plagued by early problems (Which even when cleared, was still not really trusted by many of the ‘early adopters’). The M14 was considered bulky and ill-suited to jungle warfare. AKs were prized for their reliability, and were often carried by ‘special’ units. Unofficially, of course. This lead to a few “friendly fire” incidents, IIRC. Still, I’d say that **whattheheck** ’s story is a load of bull. **Maureen** , it’ll probably be this weekend before I can come up with some decent links. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-seriously-considering-voting-for-j-f-kerry/241848/99 "2004-04-27T04:41:19Z")
Leaning towards Kerry. ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-seriously-considering-voting-for-j-f-kerry/241848/100 "2004-04-27T05:35:18Z")
> [@whattheheck](#): > > im not voting for him > my best friends uncle was in the war with him and apparently they were coming to shore in their boats and kerry started to freak out so the uncle had to knock kerry out with his AK otherwise they all would have gotten wasted. if u look u can still see the scar on kerry’s head. anyways from what i know kerry is trying to play himself off as a big war hero and id have to say he’s a big war pussy. someone took that story to the press and the day after it was published my uncle was fired because “we dont have a need for your position anymore” the uncle was an insurance adjuster. try having an insurance company w/o an adjuster and let me know how it works out As the story was taken to the press, I’m sure you can provide us with a cite. That would be a link to the story from a reputable online source, or a specific reference to the newspaper or magazine that published it. If this is indeed a legitimate story, I’d very much like to read it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-seriously-considering-voting-for-j-f-kerry/241848.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-seriously-considering-voting-for-j-f-kerry/241848.md?page=6)