# Is ape sign language completely dead? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 19, 2026, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ape-sign-language-completely-dead/1027824 "2026-02-19T18:57:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2026, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ape-sign-language-completely-dead/1027824/21 "2026-02-20T05:51:10Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > Occasionally, dogs do use multiple buttons together to express something more complicated in a unique way, like “ouch stranger paw” to let their owner know that they have a sticker in their paw. > [@filmore](#): > > Rather than the owners trying to teach them to speak human, the buttons are there for the dogs to use as they please. How does the dog know which button means “ouch” (say) if a human isn’t teaching it? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2026, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ape-sign-language-completely-dead/1027824/22 "2026-02-20T05:54:32Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Whenever I’ve seen videos of dogs allegedly communicating using buttons it’s been highly unconvincing. Ask @Beckdawrek. She’s doing it regularly with her dog Bayliss. And it’s convincing. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2026, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ape-sign-language-completely-dead/1027824/23 "2026-02-20T06:08:37Z")
Thank you for that link! The video is an hour long and I’ve downloaded it for watching tonight. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2026, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ape-sign-language-completely-dead/1027824/24 "2026-02-20T06:42:47Z")
The PBS doc is a good explanatory look at dogs using buttons. The reason I wanted to do it is because my speech is bad and he had already learned some modified sign language. So I knew we could understand each other better if he had vocal words spoken to him. I thought I’d use the buttons to give him simple instruction with a recorded word. Plus I thought, oh funzies!! He picked it right up. As much as any smart dog would. Many dogs understand human words. And gestures. Border Collies are famous for it. This is not a _game_ for all dogs or cats. They have to be motivated. Usually with treats. And not be wild hares. A calm dog will do it better(imo). The trick to buttons is to make them know they can mimic them back. Add a few treats and game on. He learned treat and potty in an hour. Things he doesn’t wanna do he just walks away or pushes “Love you”, he likes that button because he likes the reaction he gets. So it’s used often. And it’s synonymous with “all done” in his mind. What I didn’t expect was him starting a “talk”. They’ve often turned into some puzzling out needed for me to understand. Usually I can figure out his problem and fix it. It would be easy to say he’s having real conversations with me. I do believe he has some existential thoughts. I think all living beings think these things. Maybe not to excess like primates do. Mostly it’s questions or needs. He asks me every morning “littles bye, hmm?” Littles are what he calls every other pet or kid. He’s asking me have the kids left for school. I believe. I have no belief he’ll be a public speaker or write a novel. I do write his “poetry” down. We get a kick outta that. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2026, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ape-sign-language-completely-dead/1027824/25 "2026-02-20T07:05:50Z")
These sorts of things require very careful controls because of what might be called the “Clever Hans” phenomenon mentioned above. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2026, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ape-sign-language-completely-dead/1027824/26 "2026-02-20T07:17:44Z")
Sure, but it’s indisputable that many dogs are incredibly intelligent. Some gifted dogs know the names of over 100 of their toys and can fetch them on command. > **[Rare gifted word-learner dogs like to share their toys](https://arstechnica.com/science/2026/02/rare-gifted-word-learner-dogs-like-to-share-their-toys/)** > > It raises the possibility that social motivation plays a role in why some dogs end up learning object names." [https://www.cbc.ca/radio/quirks/gifted-dogs-learn-words-9.7071004](https://www.cbc.ca/radio/quirks/gifted-dogs-learn-words-9.7071004) ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2026, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ape-sign-language-completely-dead/1027824/27 "2026-02-20T11:17:11Z")
No human ever doing the studies was a native signer. The Gardners (Washoe) Hired Sam Supalla, a native signer who would go on to head the Dept. of Sign Language Studies at Gallaudet, and he was fired, because his chimp produced much fewer “signs” than any other researchers. There’s a lot more to the story, and I’ve met Supalla, and I have a lot more to say, but I have to go to work. I will write more later. But yes, the program is dead, and apes don’t use human language. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2026, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ape-sign-language-completely-dead/1027824/28 "2026-02-20T11:34:33Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > and apes don’t use human language. They certainly are intelligent enough to have “a” language, and it it kind of our responsibility to learn theirs before we (arrogantly) try to tell them ours. A much simpler example. When I had a dog, an animal who is orders of magnitude less intelligent than a gorilla, he learned a number of things. He was not even a very intelligent dog, having been the runt of his litter and suffering oxygen starvation during birth. Despite his intellectual defects, the traditional command/reward benefits in training him got him to behave fairly well on the very goofy dog scale. He would sit, stay, wait, all the usual training commands. He even managed to graduate puppy school. This was one of the dumbest dogs I have ever met, and yet even he learned the basics. Even sign language. . I’d easily place Chimps, Bonobos, Orangutans and Gorillas above him. Hell, I would add in Baboons and Vervet Monkeys to that group. (granted, dogs and humans have a long term symbiotic relationship…) ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2026, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ape-sign-language-completely-dead/1027824/29 "2026-02-20T12:17:21Z")
> [@scudsucker](#): > > (granted, dogs and humans have a long term symbiotic relationship…) Yes, dogs (and probably other domestic animals) are more motivated to care about what people are saying to them than wild animals. I saw an interesting article comparing dogs and wolves. And the wolves were smarter in most ways, except the dogs beat them every time the test involved paying attention to cues from humans. In particular, dogs watched what the humans were looking at, and could use that information to find treats, and wolves didn’t do that. The button training thing is interesting. I have a friend who has been working with her cat. Cats aren’t usually very good about language, at least, not about spoken language. But i guess the buttons are easier. She’s gotten her cat to accept pills with a promise, “pill now treat after”. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2026, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ape-sign-language-completely-dead/1027824/30 "2026-02-20T13:27:01Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > How does the dog know which button means “ouch” (say) if a human isn’t teaching it? The owners press the buttons in their normal interactions and the dogs pick up the initial meanings naturally. It’s like how the dog learns that the word “walk” means they get to go on a walk. With the buttons, the owners press the button at the same time that they’re talking. For instance, there would be a button near the door that says “outside”. Everytime the owner opens the door, they say the word “outside” and press the button that also says “outside”. Eventually, the dog will press the button on their own when they want to go outside. The owner will use this technique to teach their dog words like “outside”, “food”, “water”, “play”, etc. Where the language part starts to come in is when the dog puts together multiple buttons to express a concept that they weren’t taught. For instance, a dog who knows the words “outside” and “play” might press the two buttons “play outside” to communicate that he wants to play outside. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2026, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ape-sign-language-completely-dead/1027824/31 "2026-02-20T16:07:54Z")
Exactly how it works. It is mimicry. _Aping,_ if you will. Still it’s fun for me and fun for Bayliss. He’s managed to learn how to please me and please himself by getting a treat or something he wants. Bayliss often tattletales on the buttons. If the Chihuahuas are bickering and fussing each other. Bayliss pushes “littles” and “mad” and looks at me, like “are you gonna do something about this? Or should I?” ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2026, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ape-sign-language-completely-dead/1027824/32 "2026-02-21T00:15:35Z")
I just gotta tell the story of our dog Spike. We had a baby grand piano and had taught him the command, “Spike, get under the piano. We had also taught him “Sit”. So on one occasion I told Spike to get under the piano while my mother ordered him to sit. What Spike did was get down on his haunches and slowly drag himself under the piano. You had to be there. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2026, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ape-sign-language-completely-dead/1027824/33 "2026-02-21T00:27:46Z")
If anything I would expect domesticated dogs to be _better_ at language than apes, despite having measurably lower general intelligence. Dogs are the product of tens of thousands of years of selection for compatibility with humans, including our efforts to communicate with them. People have speculated on how incredibly useful apes could be if they had the same degree of domestication as dogs– something that would require either a fifty thousand-year long breeding program, or genetic engineering. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2026, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ape-sign-language-completely-dead/1027824/34 "2026-02-21T00:33:08Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Whalesong is complex enough that, even if they don’t have dependent clauses, they might have other semantic constructs that we lack, and that they won’t take us seriously until we demonstrate them. > > But our level of understanding is still crude enough that we don’t know on either score. I’m at least half-convinced that dolphins probably communicate by drawing pictures in ultrasound, mimicking what the sonar return on an object would look like; so that dolphins essentially talk in cartoon panel illustrations. So for example “beware of the orca” would be a picture of the subject being devoured by an orca. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2026, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ape-sign-language-completely-dead/1027824/35 "2026-02-21T00:54:28Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > No human ever doing the studies was a native signer. The Gardners (Washoe) Hired Sam Supalla, a native signer who would go on to head the Dept. of Sign Language Studies at Gallaudet, and he was fired, because his chimp produced much fewer “signs” than any other researchers. > [@griffin1977](#): > > Language requires the use of sentences, and Nim didn’t use sentences. Though Nim recognized and used signs, Terrace said he did not initiate conversation. When Nim combined signs, they tended to be highly repetitive and filled with “wild cards”—words like ME, HUG, NIM, and MORE.[[30]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nim_Chimpsky#cite_note-30) For example, Nim’s longest utterance, 16 signs, was: “Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you.” Right- words- yes, sentences- no. A friend, who was an ASL interpreter said that watching the gorilla “talk” was mostly words repeated. the so-called “sentences” made no sense, they were gibberish. But it does appear that Apes can learn a few sign language words- not sentences- Banana for example. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2026, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ape-sign-language-completely-dead/1027824/36 "2026-02-21T01:23:29Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Sure, but it’s indisputable that many dogs are incredibly intelligent. It’s extremely disputable unless you can quantify what ‘incredibly intelligent’ means. I mean I’m no genius, but compared to me all dogs are dumb as fuck. I can memorize at least 110 toys 🙂 Is a dog smarter than a [parrot](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/rZqCBKrlm2I)? A [heron](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M5sfVA7xEQ)? An [alligator](https://www.science.org/content/article/scienceshot-first-example-tool-use-reptiles)? The fact is that human intelligence is hard enough measure, non-human animal intelligence is many times harder because untangling actual reasoning from instinct is insanely difficult. Hyperbole doesn’t help. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2026, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ape-sign-language-completely-dead/1027824/37 "2026-02-21T01:41:19Z")
@RivkahChaya explain what a native signer is compared to a taught Asl signer. I’m a hearing signer, so I don’t really count. I’m really fluent with a few people. And can read it pretty quickly. I feel like an informed explanation would fit in here and I’m not the one to do it. I think I remember you worked with the Deaf. Oh and Happy Birthday! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2026, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ape-sign-language-completely-dead/1027824/38 "2026-02-21T02:09:38Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > I’m at least half-convinced that dolphins probably communicate by drawing pictures in ultrasound, mimicking what the sonar return on an object would look like; so that dolphins essentially talk in cartoon panel illustrations. So for example “beware of the orca” would be a picture of the subject being devoured by an orca. It’s an amusing thought, and I’ve seen it show up in fiction, but I don’t think it’s actually possible. Consider just our much cruder capability of localizing sound: We can’t “see” with our ears, but we can at least tell if a sound is coming from our left or our right. How could a dolphin in one location produce a sound that seems to another dolphin to be coming from another direction? Actually, I’m not an expert, but I’m skeptical that dolphins can even “see pictures” of even actual objects using echolocation. With only two ears, I just don’t see how there could be enough information in a pulse-stream in order to get a picture. They can certainly get a lot of useful information from their sonar, but I suspect that a lot of that depends on sophisticated mental models of the world, and that they’d be fooled by anything that doesn’t match their mental model. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2026, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ape-sign-language-completely-dead/1027824/39 "2026-02-21T02:48:40Z")
The funny thing about signing Banana. You don’t finger spell it out. It’s a two handed sign the finger held upright, and the other hand, two fingers make a peel down motion. Teaching the grandkids “banana” was hard because they call me Nana. So their sign for me is the banana sign. Occasionally they just hold a finger up. We get a laugh about that. All of the kids have been signed to and speaking sign as soon as their fingers could do the motions. ABCs taught as soon as they were ready. The twins really picked up on it. I see them signing between themselves. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2026, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ape-sign-language-completely-dead/1027824/40 "2026-02-21T03:26:50Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > What Spike did was get down on his haunches and slowly drag himself under the piano. You had to be there. I love it! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ape-sign-language-completely-dead/1027824.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ape-sign-language-completely-dead/1027824.md?page=3)