# Is Apple losing customers fast? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 25, 2011, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-apple-losing-customers-fast/604033 "2011-11-25T12:31:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2011, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-apple-losing-customers-fast/604033/61 "2011-11-28T16:18:14Z")
This [article](http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderdaily/2011/11/28/apple-beat-others-black-friday-momentum-says-piper/?mod=yahoobarrons) ( from today ) states that, not only is Apple not losing customers, it is still gaining momentum among the younger crowd (who will undoubtedly go on join the ranks of the faithful). ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2011, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-apple-losing-customers-fast/604033/62 "2011-11-28T16:28:29Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > I wonder what all you were asking it. I’ll admit that Siri has been a little hit or miss (it is still in beta), and the network disconnections frustrating, but it’s been a really tremendous resource the majority of the time. The one that blew me and my friends away was when we had been joking with someone in the group via passive aggressive comments to Siri: > > Joe: Siri, Clara needs a stick pulled out of her butt. > Siri: I’ve found the following lawn and garden stores near you. > Clara: ☹ > Joe: Siri, now we need to buy Clara some balloons to cheer her up. > Siri: I’ve found the following party supply stores near you. > > Again, lots of kinks to work out, but the potential is real. It sounds like the same voice search that’s in Android phones. What’s the difference? ---
**Author:** ![randomface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5fc32e/32.png) [@randomface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randomface)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-apple-losing-customers-fast/604033/63 "2011-11-28T16:38:11Z")
The Android search feature is more scripted and less personable. For the version of Voice Search I currently have (unsure if it’s the latest), you have to start commands with trigger words like navigate, dial, call, message, email, etc. I have found it much easier to use than the Siri feature on my wife’s iPhone, but she loves it. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-apple-losing-customers-fast/604033/64 "2011-11-28T16:45:08Z")
> [@Amblydoper](#): > > When Google releases a new version of Android, you could have to wait months to see the upgrade, if you ever see it at all. Many android devices still under 2 year contracts _as of right now_ will never be upgraded again. That’s the long and short of it. Anyone going to Android for better long-term support is going to get quite the shock. My HTC Desire, which is about a year and a half old, won’t even be getting a proper(_) upgrade to Android 2.3, never mind, 3.0, 3.1, 3.2 or 4.0. In comparison, iOS 5 works on an iPhone 3GS that was released almost two and a half years ago. (_) I say proper, as they offer a version “for experts only” that isn’t fully featured and IIRC wipes your phone completely. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2011, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-apple-losing-customers-fast/604033/65 "2011-11-28T16:48:00Z")
Anybody notice Dog80 hasn’t returned? #TrolledAgain Again, another thread where someone lobs a grenade then disappears. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2011, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-apple-losing-customers-fast/604033/66 "2011-11-28T19:55:17Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > I wonder what all you were asking it. I’ll admit that Siri has been a little hit or miss (it is still in beta), and the network disconnections frustrating, but it’s been a really tremendous resource the majority of the time. The one that blew me and my friends away was when we had been joking with someone in the group via passive aggressive comments to Siri: > > Joe: Siri, Clara needs a stick pulled out of her butt. > Siri: I’ve found the following lawn and garden stores near you. > Clara: ☹ > Joe: Siri, now we need to buy Clara some balloons to cheer her up. > Siri: I’ve found the following party supply stores near you. > > Again, lots of kinks to work out, but the potential is real. I just got an iPhone 4S, and I also am having a surprisingly hard time getting Siri to understand what I’m saying. It seems to understand me only about 30% of the time, at best. And I mean when I’m asking it for basic requests that I thought it was intended to help with: “How long will it take to drive to such-and-such destination?” “Can’t understand.” “Make an appointment on Tuesday at 3:30 with Dr. So-and-so.” 'Can’t understand." A real disappointment, so far. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2011, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-apple-losing-customers-fast/604033/67 "2011-11-28T23:51:05Z")
The Top 5 online retailers visited on Black Friday 1. Amazon 2. Wallmart 3. BestBuy 4. Target 5. Apple > **[Apple Ranks as Fifth Most-Visited U.S. Online Retail Site on Black Friday](https://www.macrumors.com/2011/11/28/apple-ranks-as-fifth-most-visited-u-s-online-retail-site-on-black-friday/)** > > Market research firm comScore today released data on U.S. online shopping for Black Friday, showing strong sales of $816 million, up 26% over... ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-apple-losing-customers-fast/604033/68 "2011-11-29T00:46:19Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > I just got an iPhone 4S, and I also am having a surprisingly hard time getting Siri to understand what I’m saying. I read an article a couple of weeks back about how Siri has a hard time with some accents. Scottish? Forget it. All gibberish to Siri. To paraphrase Steve Jobs on the Antenna issue from the iPhone 4; You’re doing it wrong. Learn to speak proper English clearly and enunciate. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-apple-losing-customers-fast/604033/69 "2011-11-29T01:38:33Z")
My Mom got a 4S and her biggest complaint was that she couldn’t use the keyboard very well. I kept telling her that she would get the hang of it and not to worry. Eventually she called me up all excited because she had discovered Siri. She loves it especially because she just tells it what to do and she doesn’t need to try to type any more. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-apple-losing-customers-fast/604033/70 "2011-11-29T03:57:09Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > I just got an iPhone 4S, and I also am having a surprisingly hard time getting Siri to understand what I’m saying. It seems to understand me only about 30% of the time, at best. And I mean when I’m asking it for basic requests that I thought it was intended to help with: > > “How long will it take to drive to such-and-such destination?” “Can’t understand.” > > “Make an appointment on Tuesday at 3:30 with Dr. So-and-so.” 'Can’t understand." > > A real disappointment, so far. You have to be more specific in your instructions. Just giving the information isn’t enough; you have to tell Siri what to do with it. It will set a reminder for your appointment, for example, but you have to tell it to set the reminder for your appointment. As wonderful as Siri is, it can’t read your mind. ---
**Author:** ![Krouget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b38774/32.png) [@Krouget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krouget)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-apple-losing-customers-fast/604033/71 "2011-11-29T17:44:33Z")
> [@typoink](#): > > I think Apple’s _gaining_ traction, if anything. They have a slick combination of nice, usable devices and locked-in, closed ecosystems. Not sure I follow this logic. The slick combination, or rather, the variation of devices, is a claim Android OS can make, just the same. It’s this variety of different shapes, sizes, and models which provide the customer with choice. Both iOS and Android are plenty usable, as they’re both mainstream operating systems, and by no means obscure. The closed ecosystem thing has its advantages and disadvantages. Again, as related to the point above, it’s certainly can prove to be successful, but is not the only road to success. > [@](#): > > For most users, moving from Android to iPhone is an easy transition. The other way…not so much. I’m not convinced this is true, but then I can’t disprove it either. The most I can say, is that the market has shown there is enough room for both operating systems and I see casual users limited by their ignorance on both platforms. > [@](#): > > The marketshare of Android devices is because they’re cheaper and pan-carrier. It’s certainly not because they’re better. And I say that as an Android user who will probably buy another Android device next upgrade cycle. “Better” is an ambiguous word, but pricing sure carries weight in the mind of most any consumer. Alternatively, if a consumer prefers a 4.3 inch device because it fits more nicely in their hands, then it’s most certainly “better”, for them. I think Android is too mature of an OS, and enough of a threat to iOS, that minimizing the advantages doesn’t really help the argument. > [@shijinn](#): > > this gets trumped out every time in these discussions, yet what significance is it suppose to hold? The significance is that it highlights the difference between the two companies and how they compete for the same market space. Raising one point to counter the other, without context, is near pointless. Google is an ad company, thus the proliferation of Android better serves their bottom-line. They want Android everywhere, because greater market share means more ad potential. This is also why they continue to offer the OS free, as well as many of their web services. Apple, on the other hand, is a hardware company. While market share is a point of significance, they’re in a comfortable position and certainly make a nice amount of profit from unit sales, among other things. In the end, both companies are very successful at what they do, and it’s clear they are accomplishing their goals in spades. > [@Amblydoper](#): > > Apple has a healthy ecosystem surrounding their platform, and consumers are spending money on much more then just their monthly wireless bill. Android users in general, aren’t buying apps, aren’t buying subscriptions, aren’t using paid-wifi on the road, etc. Android may have more users, but Apple has the users that are spending money. You can go back and forth about who pays for what, but as highlighted above, the approach is different. Companies like Rovio released Angry Birds for free on Android, and is enjoying a good amount of revenue due to ads. I don’t recall if it’s more or less than the iOS counterpart in the longrun, but it’s an effective method for making money. The market has shown that it’s willing to stomach both trends. > [@antonio107](#): > > Do you jailbreak? I know with the 4.5 JB I could get my blackberry to tether to it, but not sans-JB, and I don’t have a JB for iOS 5 yet. Android natively supports tethering. The issue here, though, is that the carrier prefers you pay for their service. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-apple-losing-customers-fast/604033/72 "2011-11-29T18:29:15Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > It sounds like the same voice search that’s in Android phones. What’s the difference? Problem solving. I didn’t tell it to search for a lawn and garden store - I told it we needed to remove a stick. I didn’t tell it to search for a party supply store - I told it we needed balloons. I can pull up Google Voice on my iPhone and enter the same search, and it doesn’t get close to those results. Even going straight to Google Maps and entering those comes up with nothing even remotely resembling lawn and garden or a party supply store. How did you think it was similar? > [@suranyi](#): > > “How long will it take to drive to such-and-such destination?” “Can’t understand.” Just tell it: “Map [destination]”. It will have estimated driving time as a function of the results. > [@](#): > > “Make an appointment on Tuesday at 3:30 with Dr. So-and-so.” 'Can’t understand." That command works fine on mine, word for word - I’m guessing you’re going to have to trial-and-error it until you find what cadence/volume/etc. you need to hit for Siri to hear you clearly. ---
**Author:** ![Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambi_Hassenpfeffer)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-apple-losing-customers-fast/604033/73 "2011-11-29T19:10:03Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > It’s easy to forget what the world was like, pre-iPhone 1. Apple performed some AMAZING feats that no-one had been able to, prior…some of them: > > 1. Online registration from home…with no waiting on hold. > 2. The phone was unsullied by the carriers with crapware…and the features Apple promised were available upon launch…unlike other vendors which show a phone, only to have the carrier cut the stuff out > 3. The bandwidth was unlimited > 4. The device automatically made a backup with your computer…no extra software necessary > 5. A Real ‘meat stick stylus’ operating environment > 6. Sensors to make butt dialing impossible, automatically change screen orientation, and change screen intensity based on ambient light > 7. a REAL Web Browser For the record, all of these were available on Nokia smartphones well prior to the debut of the iPhone. I’d been using Symbian-based Nokias for years and frankly wondered what all the hype about the iPhone was at the time. Except of course, for number 3 – there’s no such thing as unlimited bandwidth. Do you mean unlimited data usage? The problem with Nokia from an American perspective is that they never pushed their smartphones in the US market. They were huge in Europe, of course, and they still lead in Asia/Pacific markets. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-apple-losing-customers-fast/604033/74 "2011-11-29T19:30:28Z")
> [@Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](#): > > The problem with Nokia from an American perspective is that they never pushed their smartphones in the US market. They were huge in Europe, of course, and they still lead in Asia/Pacific markets. Which is what gave the iPhone first responder advantage in the US. That was also not intended to be an exhaustive list. Having owned Nokia in the past (alas, pre-symbian), they were very good phones, but the iPhone at release was excellent. Were there gaps? Sure. But they rapidly rectified them and gave existing customers a MUCH better phone, two years in, for zero additional cost. But that’s not really something I can _make_ you see. That’s another aspect of this infernal, unending, fruitless, debate. I’ve never once seen a participant say “Golly! You’re Right! Apple truly is the [Way | Great Satan]” ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-apple-losing-customers-fast/604033/75 "2011-11-29T20:06:43Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ve never once seen a participant say “Golly! You’re Right! Apple truly is the [Way | Great Satan]” Sure but this is all a hijack of the question posed in the OP which is whether or not Apple’s customer base is shrinking. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-apple-losing-customers-fast/604033/76 "2011-11-29T20:08:13Z")
I think it’s a bit obvious that is is not. [http://www.forbes.com/sites/mobiledia/2011/11/29/apple-breaks-black-friday-record/](http://www.forbes.com/sites/mobiledia/2011/11/29/apple-breaks-black-friday-record/) ---
**Author:** ![antonio107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ea924/32.png) [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-apple-losing-customers-fast/604033/77 "2011-11-29T20:10:36Z")
> [@Krouget](#): > > Android natively supports tethering. The issue here, though, is that the carrier prefers you pay for their service. Sure, but in my case I have an iPad, which I think does not because, like you say, android has different tethering rules than iOS… ---
**Author:** ![Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambi_Hassenpfeffer)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-apple-losing-customers-fast/604033/78 "2011-11-29T20:36:49Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > I’ve never once seen a participant say “Golly! You’re Right! Apple truly is the [Way | Great Satan]” Apple is neither. Nor is any other company. I have an HP desktop, a MacBook, an HTC phone running an aftermarket Android ROM, a Kindle, and an HP TouchPad running webOS. I use the best product for me for whatever niche I need filled. I neither love nor hate Apple the company, and I respect their marketing prowess from business perspective. I do really like my MacBook, but I also like the ecosystem on Android. For straight interface ease-of-use and transparency, webOS wins though. I am neither an Apple nor an Android fanboy, and I don’t need you to convince me either way. I was just pointing out that all those things you listed weren’t exactly OMG REVOLUTIONARY as you breathlessly stated when the iPhone debuted. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-apple-losing-customers-fast/604033/79 "2011-11-29T20:41:09Z")
And I’ll disagree with your assessment, as predicted, and say Apple did more, in one product, at one release, to change the direction of portable tablet devices than any other manufacturer. You only have to look at the overall design of phones before and after the original iPhone to see that. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-apple-losing-customers-fast/604033/80 "2011-11-29T20:45:47Z")
I’m in full agreement with the following video. Warts and all. But he’s saying what he’s saying because _nobody_ prior to Apple did all of this. [http://video.nytimes.com/video/2007/06/25/technology/1194817097590/the-iphone-challenge-keep-it-quiet.html](http://video.nytimes.com/video/2007/06/25/technology/1194817097590/the-iphone-challenge-keep-it-quiet.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-apple-losing-customers-fast/604033.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-apple-losing-customers-fast/604033.md?page=5)